Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 996/997/991 Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
PDK Clutch Pack Replacement

Hello,

Is it possible to replace the Clutch Pack on PDK cars?
Clutch pack will wear out eventually, and I have read that PDK transmissions are replacement part and Porsche does not repair PDK.
So what is the solution? Paying 20000$ to replace the whole transmission? ,

To make it easier for you, when JFP who is the first to responded to my post, did not know that Porsche no longer selling the clutch pack as a separate part and you have to buy the whole transmission unit as replacement transmission. The price is about 20000$ USD for PDK transmission.

JFP called Porsche and this is what he found out later on:

Checked with our dealer here, the clutch pack part number is now a "restricted" item, meaning they have to call PCNA to get approval before shipment, which totally cuts out independent's like me. Don't know what prompted this, but it is probably related to why the race shops no longer sell complete upgraded "race" versions, and now will only send you a shipping container to send yours out to be upgraded. Porsche has a long history of not letting the aftermarket mess with their stuff...


Last edited by dtakenname; 06-28-2020 at 10:49 AM.. Reason: The first respond to my post was not correct and could lead misinformation if the reader does not read the whole chat.
Old 06-22-2020, 06:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtakenname View Post
Hello,

Is it possible to replace the Clutch Pack on PDK cars?
Clutch pack will wear out eventually, and I have read that PDK transmissions are replacement part and Porsche does not repair PDK.
So what is the solution? Paying 20000$ to replace the whole transmission? ,
The PDK clutch pack is available as a part, sitting on the parts counter in a box, will set you back about $5K. Yes, you read that correctly...................

That said, you cannot replace the clutch pack without access to a current PIWIS system.
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."

Last edited by JFP in PA; 06-22-2020 at 10:51 AM..
Old 06-22-2020, 06:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OC CA
Posts: 994
Garage
What's average life span on those JFP ?
Old 06-23-2020, 09:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYprodriver View Post
What's average life span on those JFP ?
Like any clutch, it all depends upon how the car has been used and maintained. Some new owners get enamored playing with the launch control system, which is very hard on the assembly. As these are wet clutch packs, how frequently the clutch fluid is changed is also critical, because that is how the system cools off the overheated clutch system.

Realistically, the PDK clutch is quite durable and with normal usage should easily go 100K miles without problems. But having a history of replacing clutches for customers, you quickly learn that in one car that happens every 30-40K miles, and another still looks good after 150K miles. As is often said, "your mileage may vary............"
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."
Old 06-23-2020, 10:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Thank you JFP,
I found this post in another forum, basically this post shows the more in depth look into the PDK transmission, but in conclusion, the poster points out that PDK is a scam and Porsche does not repair this transmission and you have to get a new one. At what service level, the PDK should be replaced with new one? Also the poster in the Clutch Failure section in the bottom of the post says the clutch pack is sealed and not serviceable and Porsche does not provide any parts. Posters conclusion is very interesting too.
Would be great to know your opinion about this post.
The link with all the pictures here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1172826-guide-to-repairing-a-pdk-transmission.html

Clutch failure


Last but not least is potential failure of the clutch itself. The good news is that these clutches have proven to be very robust and donít fail often. The failures that do occur are usually on heavily built engines (e.g. 30% power over stock) with just too much torque for the clutch plates. At these high torques the clutches slip resulting in highly accelerated wear. There are replacement heavy-duty track clutches available for the PDK from Dodson Motorsports, but they are very expensive, on the order of $12k.

The clutch truly is a sealed unit and is not serviceable. There are different clutches for the Carreras (rated at 450 Nm) and the Turbo (rated at 700 Nm). I could not find any OEM clutch suppliers and only found one Chinese aftermarket supplier. Hereís a shot of what they advertise. They donít list a price but say to contact them for more info.

This supplier only lists the lighter duty Carrera clutch as available and doesnít have a listing for the Turbo clutch. Their website can be found here:

https://go4trans.com/porsche-pdk-7dt...l-clutch-assy/

As of June 2020 another Chinese aftermarket supplier now lists a remanufactured replacement clutch for $785. The link can be found here:

https://www.shenghaiautoparts.com/shop/clutch/pdk-transmission-clutch/

I donít think I would go this route unless I was really desperate as I canít imagine the quality is anything close to OEM. Plus Iíve got a turbo so Iím SOL anyways. Fortunately these clutches donít fail often so itís unlikely Iíll need a new one. If it does fail itís a good excuse to get the Dodson heavy-duty clutch and a monster engine build


Conclusion


To be blunt, I think Porscheís ďsealedĒ PDK transmission is a scam meant to separate us from our money. There are many relatively inexpensive, readily replaceable parts in this transmission that could be serviced by qualified shops and experienced DIYíers. Failure of these parts likely makes up a large majority of PDK replacements. I think Porsche has deliberately withheld servicing information to create an aura of mystique around the transmission, to sucker us into thinking we have no choice but to drop $15K to $25k on a new transmission. I donít see anything that makes this transmission so complicated or delicate that warrants their ridiculous policy. Frankly, it seems borderline illegal to me, violating consumer protection regulations.

To be fair Porsche dealerships do replace valve bodies on the PDK but there is little information on this available to the general public. I suspect there are also plenty of cases where a transmission replacement is performed by dealers when a valve body would have done the trick. On top of that, the Porsche list price for a valve body (which most dealers typically charge) is nearly $3k. Better than $15k but still absolutely crazy, particularly since a valve body "failure" is likely caused by a $50 solenoid.

As an experienced DIYíer, I will almost certainly forgo an extended warranty and attempt to repair the PDK myself if it fails prior to shelling out big bucks for a new transmission. The odds are really good the transmission can be repaired for less than 10% the cost of a replacement.

Note that pretty much every repair discussed here will require PIWIS service prior to being back on the road. Replacing the valve body needs a transmission calibration, as likely will installing a new clutch. (The PIWIS calibration procedure is described in detail in the first document linked at the bottom of the post. It's not difficult.) Any repair that removes the valve body (even if not replaced) will require a PIWIS for refilling the transmission. A Durametric can read the codes but it canít perform the PDK commanding. So hopefully anyone affected is on good terms with a competent indy who can take care of this for a reasonable price. Also note that youíll likely have to flatbed your car to the indy for the cal and/or fill procedure if you DIY the work.

BTW, itís very likely a PIWIS is not required if one is simply draining the clutch fluid and not removing the valve body. The reasons are found at the link below, and the author explains in detail why that is the case and the tests he undertook using a PIWIS to demonstrate this. I find his rationale to be very compelling, and it squares with other information Iíve found in researching this transmission. This would also apply to the scheduled 60k mile clutch fluid replacement service.

https://www.planet-9.com/threads/diy...l-mode.237865/


Next steps
Compile transmission fault codes (readable with a Durametric) to cross reference against likely part failure and the repair process. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Attached Images
File Type: pdf PDK factory t-shoot document.pdf (569.7 KB, 329 views)
File Type: pdf PDK valve body and temp sensor.pdf (485.5 KB, 254 views)
File Type: pdf PDK repair aftersales training.pdf (3.90 MB, 303 views)
Old 06-23-2020, 02:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Regardless of what you've read, the PDK is not a "scam", but is a very highly developed technology that requires quite a bit of single use, special fixtures and tool to work on; hence not field repairing them. Several other makes with sequential gear boxes are in a similar mode. In order to field service one of these, a dealer would need $20-30K worth of special tooling with no other use, and techs with hours of previous experience with the internals. There are valid reasons why Porsche (and other dealers) do not rebuild these gearboxes or even engines in the field for that matter; it simply makes no economic sense.

The individual clutch plates and steels are not available separately, only as a clutch pack assembly, for around $5K.

And the PIWIS is not only used to reset the valve body unless it had to be replaced; during service, the only way to correctly adjust the clutch fluid level at temperature is with a PIWIS; a lot of people have tried not using one, some got away with it, others were not so fortunate and eventually paid the price.

As for finding Chinese components, they knock off just about any otherwise expensive components, often poorly made copies of dubious quality. Hell, they even sell knock off PIWIS systems, some of which are copies of the version I or II, now woefully out of date, and some are not even a PIWIS at all, often just a very old version of the Durametric system that is even more out of date.

And not changing the filter in the pan is just plain stupid, no matter what you read, they get filthy and need to be changed.......

More often than not, internet postings calling the PDK a "scam" are just that themselves, often written by someone whose manhood and driving ability is now threatened by technology; the PDK is quite rugged, faster shifting than any human, and yes, they are expensive. But more and more, for the high end, high output Porsche's (and Ferrari's, Lambo's, Aston Martin's, etc.), they are the ONLY available gear box. Expensive, not easy to work on, very misunderstood and often maligned, but an absolute blast to drive at the limits. In the end, speed cost money; how fast do you want to go?
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."

Last edited by JFP in PA; 06-23-2020 at 05:35 PM..
Old 06-23-2020, 03:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Thank you JFP!
You got to pay to play.

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nKmSVQdSr4&t=38s
Old 06-23-2020, 06:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Carlos, CA US
Posts: 4,731
And I actively avoid PDK just for the serviceability (lack of) of the system. Hail to the 6 speed.
__________________
Porsche 2005 GT3, 2006 997S
Exotic: Ferrari F348TB Factory Challenge, Ferrari 328 GTS
Disposable Car: BMW 530xiT, Audi A3S
Two-wheel art: Ducati 907IE, Ducati 851
Old 06-25-2020, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
So I emailed the local Porsche dealership and this is what they wrote me back regarding the clutch pack replacement for PDK transmissions on 997.2 cars:

"I am sorry to say that this item is not sold separately. This is only sold as a package deal with the transmission as a whole. If you would like further assistance with this inquiry, I ask that you provide me with your VIN number so that I may look into the specifics of your vehicle"

This dealership is in Toronto Canada, so, may be in USA they sell the clutch pack as separate part??
Old 06-26-2020, 05:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Checked with our dealer here, the clutch pack part number is now a "restricted" item, meaning they have to call PCNA to get approval before shipment, which totally cuts out independent's like me. Don't know what prompted this, but it is probably related to why the race shops no longer sell complete upgraded "race" versions, and now will only send you a shipping container to send yours out to be upgraded. Porsche has a long history of not letting the aftermarket mess with their stuff...
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."
Old 06-26-2020, 06:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
Checked with our dealer here, the clutch pack part number is now a "restricted" item, meaning they have to call PCNA to get approval before shipment, which totally cuts out independent's like me. Don't know what prompted this, but it is probably related to why the race shops no longer sell complete upgraded "race" versions, and now will only send you a shipping container to send yours out to be upgraded. Porsche has a long history of not letting the aftermarket mess with their stuff...
What I see is that, PDK is financial disaster waiting to happen, replacing the whole PDK unit is huge money and PDK problem makes your car worthless. .
Imagine buying a used 997.2 PDK with over 100k on her, and God forbid if the X owner had tracked the car or launched it few times,
997.2 has no IMS, but for sure, has PDK to give you nightmares, or to suck your hard earned money out of your bank account.
Old 06-26-2020, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtakenname View Post
What I see is that, PDK is financial disaster waiting to happen, replacing the whole PDK unit is huge money and PDK problem makes your car worthless. .
Imagine buying a used 997.2 PDK with over 100k on her, and God forbid if the X owner had tracked the car or launched it few times,
997.2 has no IMS, but for sure, has PDK to give you nightmares, or to suck your hard earned money out of your bank account.
You could make the same assumption about any high end vehicle with a sequential gear box, and there are a lot of them out there, and more coming out just about everyday.

But at the same time, you could buy a 997 with excellent service records, proving it was well care for and the chance for a catastrophic failure is minimal.......

All expensive, high output vehicle's worth their salt come with a element of risk, if the price associated with that risk is too high for you, you should look elsewhere. As I said earlier, speed cost money; how fast do you want to go?
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."
Old 06-26-2020, 03:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
You could make the same assumption about any high end vehicle with a sequential gear box, and there are a lot of them out there, and more coming out just about everyday.

But at the same time, you could buy a 997 with excellent service records, proving it was well care for and the chance for a catastrophic failure is minimal.......

All expensive, high output vehicle's worth their salt come with a element of risk, if the price associated with that risk is too high for you, you should look elsewhere. As I said earlier, speed cost money; how fast do you want to go?
You can repair the sequential gear boxes on other vehicles for example Clutch Discs or repair the mechanical and electronic issues to high degree. On PDK, you can not.
This is not about take it or leave it, It is about common sense, customer care, resell value and facts about these cars.
Even highly maintained and care for 997.2 car could have something go wrong with the transmission. Who is going to pay 20000$ for PDK replacement?
NO PDK FOR ME, unless I lease the car and not own it long term.
PDK IS REPLACEMENT PART and UNREPAIRABLE, Do your home work.
Old 06-26-2020, 04:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JFP in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Earth.............
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtakenname View Post
You can repair the sequential gear boxes on other vehicles for example Clutch Discs or repair the mechanical and electronic issues to high degree. On PDK, you can not.
This is not about take it or leave it, It is about common sense, customer care, resell value and facts about these cars.
Even highly maintained and care for 997.2 car could have something go wrong with the transmission. Who is going to pay 20000$ for PDK replacement?
NO PDK FOR ME, unless I lease the car and not own it long term.
PDK IS REPLACEMENT PART and UNREPAIRABLE, Do your home work.
If you are really so obviously pissed about it, buy something else; no one is holding a gun to your head. If you don’t like how Porsche does business, there are other brands.

And as for “doing your homework”, we have actually worked on a few of these over the years in customer’s street and track cars, so we have actually already done ours.............
__________________
Accrochez-vous bien de vos rÍves..........."

Last edited by JFP in PA; 06-26-2020 at 06:57 PM..
Old 06-26-2020, 05:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
If you are really so obviously pissed about it, buy something else; no one is holding a gun to your head. If you donít like how Porsche does business, there are other brands.

And as for ďdoing your homeworkĒ, we have actually worked on a few of these over the years in customerís street and track cars, so we have actually already done ours.............
I am here to find the facts about PDK. What is wrong whit that? I am not pissed off, you are all pissed off.
Is it blasphemy to find out that PDK transmission is a 20000$ USD replacement part as a whole unit and Porsche does not provide any part, neither technician training to repair PDK.
I found out about this when I emailed the local Porsche dealership.

Old 06-27-2020, 03:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:15 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.