997 Market Prices

[1973911s]

I have been noticing that 2005 to 2007 997 prices seem to be dropping quick. Any reason?

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[bcrdukes]

My best guess (and not a very educated one) is that the 05 - 07 models are the 997.1. As with any make/model, regardless of marque, the first generation models tend to depreciate at a higher rate than compared to the late model years.

Case in point, the 996 suffered from sharp depreciation for reasons beyond my comprehension. Could it be the IMS fear mongering or the fact that purists disliked it because Porsche as a business decided to move on to watercooling, a major step and perhaps even a slap to the face to aircooled enthusiasts.

On to the practical side, perhaps these models tend to have their quirks, and perhaps owners aren't willing to spend any more money into their vehicles, hence dumping them on the market at low prices and to move on to a shinier, newer car. This is just my personal opinion only.

I managed to get a late model year 996 for a mere $31, 500 CDN with 53, 400km on the clock with a full maintenance history. The early model 996.1 went for a lot less, about $10,000 less, but also had more mileage on the clock. In a perfect world, it would be a level playing field when it comes to price, but sadly, this is not the case. It was either a 996 or a high-mileage E46 M3 with a whack load of maintenance items to take care of for $25K!

I am happy with my purchase!

[KNS]

I don't think it's unusual. The oldest one are approaching 10 years old and those are the 997.1s (more of those produced than the 997.2s as well). The 991 might be pushing it downward just a little bit from the other end also.

If given a choice, I'd take a nice 997 over a 991 any day of the week. I've seen some starting to dip into the high $twenties.

[CMeSpeed]

It just may be that Porsche made over 100,000 997 cars from what I've read.
That's more than any other 911 built in the past. The more they make the faster the deprecation.

I just sold a pristine 1997, 993C2. The money I got afforded me the opportunity to buy a 2006 997S with only 7,000 miles. I bought the 997S for the exact money I sold the 993 for, $50K.

I debated for months with my decision to sell my car. After driving the 997S for a month now I can say I've almost forgotten about my last Porsche.

The 997 is really a great car, minus the gas mileage. I looked at the 996 TT but didn't care much for it. The 997 feels very close to the 993 in it's visceral feeling.

I didn't buy it expecting the prices to rise like the 993 have done. I love all the creature features I didn't get in all my past P cars. Heated seats are very pleasant as just one example.

I've owned numerous P cars and actually don't understand what the big deal is with air cooled cars, other than the sound. With a water cooled car I can now drive a car with an AC that works like my Mercedes. No more need to turn it off in traffic.

Want an investment car, by all means find a stock 993, bubble wrap it and put it away until the speculators realize they are over paying for them. I will always feel the 993 will go down as the sexiest 911 ever built for us mortals. No disrespect to the RS or GT owners.

[CMeSpeed]

One other thought that just came my way.

If you are shopping for a 997 I as well as others would recommend the 06 and later models as Porsche finally changed the crappy IMS bearing freeing your mind of the possibility of the engine blowing up.

There are so many horror stories about the 996 and 05 997 models that gave up the ghost without warning. And even more disappointing was Porsche's position of not helping unless you are on their A list.

If it matters to you I just sold a pristine 993 to get my 06 997S and love it to the point I've almost forgotten the 993.

Good luck.

[billh1963]

Originally Posted by CMeSpeed

One other thought that just came my way.

If you are shopping for a 997 I as well as others would recommend the 06 and later models as Porsche finally changed the crappy IMS bearing freeing your mind of the possibility of the engine blowing up.

There are so many horror stories about the 996 and 05 997 models that gave up the ghost without warning. And even more disappointing was Porsche's position of not helping unless you are on their A list.

If it matters to you I just sold a pristine 993 to get my 06 997S and love it to the point I've almost forgotten the 993.

Good luck.

You need a 2009 and newer to avoid the IMS issue

[Redgtv2000]

I am also on the market for 997 and new to Porsche and was browsing the spare parts section and I was very impressed by the price and how reasonable they are, and also the availability for almost every single part.

Being an Alfa guy and dealing with low or non existence availability of parts all these years....owning a Porsche will make my job much easier and fun fixing them.

Does anyone know about the IMS monitoring guardian Jr?

2007 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe - Camshafts & Timing Chains - Page 2

I will definitely put this on my car as a warning before it happens...has anyone used this?

Thanks,
Giorgio

[Redgtv2000]

Originally Posted by Redgtv2000

I am also on the market for 997 and new to Porsche and was browsing the spare parts section and I was very impressed by the price and how reasonable they are, and also the availability for almost every single part.

Being an Alfa guy and dealing with low or non existence availability of parts all these years....owning a Porsche will make my job much easier and fun fixing them.

Does anyone know about the IMS monitoring guardian Jr?

2007 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe - Camshafts & Timing Chains - Page 2

I will definitely put this on my car as a warning before it happens...has anyone used this?

Thanks,
Giorgio

So no one has used it?

[bcrdukes]

Redgtv2000,

Hello to a fellow Alfisti!

The Porsche will definitely be a real delight in comparison to the Alfa Romeo. I know from experience!

I won't go into the whole IMS debate but you should get the car and enjoy it. There are a tonne of IMS threads on Rennlist's' 997 forum where you can find a lot more information. For what it's worth, I would have bought my 996 even if the IMS wasn't swapped out but luckily it was done by the previous owner. Good luck!

Mike

[Redgtv2000]

Thank you Mike. I know the IMS debate is bigger than what it is in reality......

Did anyone have experience with the IMS monitoring Guardian jr. Just out of curiosity!

Giorgio

[Sapientoni]

The IMS is a real problem. I examined the failed one in my son's car and the pressure side of the inner race (which does not move) had spalling failure from the pressure. The car had 142,000 miles. It is possible that a slowly driven car has more static pressure on the chain tensioners than one that stays near the redline. That would explain the pressure area failure if the engine was a low mileage one. At 142,000 spirited miles, it was just worn out.
I'm currently working on a method to change these 2006 and later bearings without disassembly of the engine.
I believe that a vibration like noise/chatter upon cold start up, something like an a/c clutch slipping sound, is a warning of impending failure. It stops after about 10-2=30 seconds, but still worried me. Just my educated guess.

[Redgtv2000]

So no one has ever used the IMS monitoring Guarduan jr.?

[eland]

I just sold a 2005 997S that I had owned for 6+ years. It was a fantastic car. Great on the street, and great at the track (with camber plates and larger rear sway bar).

I had the IMS issue addressed when I replaced the clutch. Most 997S with some miles on them will have the IMS sorted.

[uptheorg]

I have a 2005 997 and I researched the hell out of the IMS problem after I got it. The takeaway for me was that there is about a 20% chance of failure if the car has low mileage -- I felt I could take the risk since my car was north of 40k miles in 2013. I paid $35k . . . Reading Sapientoni (post #11) makes me think twice about this now, a year later.

Back to the original idea of the thread -- one thing the 997's have going for them is that it is the last time Porsche A.G. offered manual transmissions on their base cars. Starting with the 991, you could only get it, AFIK, on the rarer variants like GT2's. All the base cars have the automatic trannies.

[Elombard]

I wonder if the fact that Porsche offered the 997 and 997S has anything to do with it. Now that they are older used cars they mostly appeal to gear heads like us and we wont really stoop to a base when there is an S available, will we??? The really low prices I have seen for 997s are all the non S version. I am trying to think if I have ever even seen an S under 40K yet? I have not really looked at them too much.

[Doug&Julie]

Not an S, but... 2006 997 coupe immaculate recent service $39900

Personally, I'd still rather have a Cayman S for $10k less (for comparable year / mileage). But that's still a lot of car for the money.

Can a car like the one above be sold as CPO by a dealer? I wonder if there's a correlation between serious price drops for cars that are too old to be CPO'd?

I imagine the still concerning IMS bearing issue has a lot to do with price dropping. I'm sure they'll still hold noticeably above the 996, however, if only for the significantly better interior quality.

[charlesj]

I will offer a contrary view to the OP. I disagree that 997.1 prices are suddenly trending down. Similar to another poster, I rode the wave of trending value on my 993 to buy my 2005 997S 6spd coupe in mid 2013. Having followed values pretty closely for sometime before that, and certainly ever since, I would argue that summer of 2013 was actually the lowest point so far for the 997.1. I purchased during a (lucky) short term dip in values where several nice S models were in upper and even mid 30s. Shortly thereafter, they were all back up over 40 or even 45 at the lower end of reasonably nice examples. This has remained fairly flat for the past year+ delaying the absolutely inevitable depreciation to come from such a mass produced Porsche.

My theory is that all the hype around Porsche in the past couple years has had a rub off effect on these cars, especially the ones at the entry price points - 996 being the exception for a variety of reasons we wont get in to.

That all said, amazing car to buy, and if depreciation is turning back on, it's pretty slow

[Uwon]

Originally Posted by Redgtv2000

Thank you Mike. I know the IMS debate is bigger than what it is in reality......

Did anyone have experience with the IMS monitoring Guardian jr. Just out of curiosity!

Giorgio

I installed the Guardian Jnr last year on my 2006 C2S. I test it when I change the oil. Car now has approximately 68k miles. I love this Porsche and plan to drive it for many years to come. I expect that it may end up with one of my kids some day.
Last year I dropped the trani and removed the outer seal to the IMS bearing. See post #48 in,
Clutch, AOS, Water Pump, Thermostat DIY Questions - Page 3 - 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S) - RennTech.org Forums

Also described in that post is my test as to how little oil is required to reach the IMS bearing- only 4 liters which is good news seeing that I have the larger non-removable bearing.
I really do not worry about the IMS issue any more. Instead, I am religious about changing the oil every 5k with Motul 10w40, I open up the filter and examine it thoroughly, oil is always topped up to the max ( not even half a bar down is acceptable to me), I always have the revs above 2,500 rpm even when just cruising, and I never, never park the car on an incline with the rear facing down.
As soon as I finish my current project build, I plan to do a clutch job and instal a DOF lubrication system as added insurance.
It's such a great car and I plan to enjoy it for many years to come. A bargain.
Cheers,
Johan

[Steve N L]

The 993 and later models look beautiful in the driveway and loads of fun to drive, but they are damn near impossible for the home mechanic to service and repair.

I have a great car shop and have worked on my own sports cars for decades. But I've never had a more difficult car to service than my 993. I sold it off for an older 911 model. My '87 is not nearly as powerful or comfortable on long distance trips......but it's mechanic friendly.

It's not just that these cars are more complicated. That certainly contributes to the increased difficulty in repair. The Germans have lost something since the early 1990's. My '88 BMW K75 is a joy to tear apart. My old '83 BMW 320is had a beauty in it's mechanical design.....it was a German design logic that just Made Sense. My 993 and my BMW K1100s insulted the mechanic with horrible design.

Thank you for allowing my rant. I'm just a cranky old man.

[dadio]

IMHO it is too early to write off the values of used 997s. The price premium added to the 991 model cars was significantly higher than for previous model updates making the buy in point for even a modestly optioned base car is over $100 K , getting in to a base S is $ 14K+ more. A C4S adds $ 21 K to the base price. A Cab adds $ 12 K to the base price of any model. Add to that the pricing being discussed is for the Fall/Winter season I suspect we will see 997.1 prices firming up by this spring as long as the US economy and job market remains vibrant. Making this a great time to buy one if you are in the market. Waiting for the spring thaw could cost you.