1ST auto cross with the big T bars - some questions.
 

Here is my set up.

Fresh Koni reds - not sure what the adjust ment is.
22/30 T bars
73 T 79 SC motor SSIs and Sport 2 out.
2280 lbs. wet no driver
S sway bars front and rear.
lowered and pretty well aligned - not perfect.
Tires are Hi po street tires - I didnt feel like bolting the race rubber on today.

I have not noticed the car to be too "over steery" on the street but I have noticed the right app of throttle and wheel would allow it to step out. Today I was able to steer with the throttle quite a bit. Got away from me a few times at first but once I got the hang of it I knocked 2 +secs off my time on a 50 sec. course. Didnt feel really good though? Might be scary on a track.

I got the T bars for a great price in a package deal so not my first choice on size (probably 21/28??)but I could not turn them down. I was suprised how easy it was to catch the tail and I never spun but came pretty close on the first runs.

So.... is this how racey 911s handle and you have to learn how to drive with the tail out or do I have way too much bar back there?

Should I just do 10 events adjust the shocks too full stiff, shut up, stop worrying and re evaluate later??

Oh, I am not a particullarly good driver - especially autocross - just dont seem to have the reflexes for it. I feel more comfy at the track (lapping) where I have time to set up for a turn and then the next etc.

That T-bar combo is what I have on my car. I think you should go to adjustable sway bars if you can't get the handling that you want. You could also try tire pressure adjustments. It's tough to get everything perfect without adjustable sway bars.

-Andy

EW,

Achieving the feeling of "balance" in a basicially stock 911 can be a life-long persuit!
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"Tires are Hi po street tires - I didnt feel like bolting the race rubber on today."

We have found it a MUST to get the very best mechanical grip possible (thru maximum allowable width wheel / fresh R-compound tire combination), plus a good baseline alignment, before one can even EVALUATE handling, much less start to adjust.

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"So.... is this how racey 911s handle and you have to learn how to drive with the tail out or do I have way too much bar back there?"

A race preped 911 will react in the extreme. Controlling that, and using it, is the racer's craft.

From the configuration information you provided, the rear of the car is now more stiffly sprung than before, and therefore feels more "lively". Your racing rubber will help "tame" some of this. Since you already have front torsion bars which are equally quite stiff, the next place to look is the shocks. Since you have adjustables, that is a huge benefit in turning.

In our Prepare Your 911 for the Track seminars, we advise proceeding something like this:
Pick a nice, dry, sunshine day.

(1) Make certain suspension alignment is within "spec", corner weights are not too far off, and your ride height is at least as low as Euro settings.
(2) ALWAYS mount racing rubberif you have it. Tire pressure is critical!
(3) Set your Konis to full soft.
(4) Run a sesson or two, working up to speed.
(5) Evaluate: Understeer? oversteer? neutral?
NOTE: If neutral, you have solved your problem (for now). If under- or oversteer, continue.
(6) Adjust tire pressure ONLY:
(7) Run a session, and evaluate.
(8) Continue to adjust tire pressures until the handling GETS WORSE. Then drop back to the previous settings.
(9) Since you do not have adjustable stabilizers, the next area of attention is shocks.
(10) Set front shocks ONLY 2 or 3 "clicks" toward stiffer.
(11) Run a session, and evaluate.
NOTE: If neutral handling, you have increased your car's speed potential, and balanced it (for now). If under- or oversteer, continue.
(12) Continue adjusting shocks, 2 or 3 "clicks", ONE END OF THE CAR AT A TIME, then test and evaluate. Stiffen the front if you are experiencing OVERsteer, and (obviously) stiffen the rear if UNDERsteer.

NOTE: During this process, be certain to watch tire wear. If both your fronts and rears were purchased at the same time, the 911 will wear through the rears much faster than the fronts. When your rears start to go "off", you will feel OVERsteer regardless of suspension adjustments.

More process than you bargained for, probably, but those willing to follow it will be quick. Those unwilling, well . . . . .

Ed LoPresti
RacePro Engineering

Thanks Guys - wow!! alot of things to think about - work to do. It did feel like I could have gone faster with wider stickier tires in the back. Cant wait to go again with the race tires.

same with my new set up. i think more seat time, backroads and AX will help me solve the riddle i have. i say riddle because its not a problem, its just not what ive become used to.

THis is a good example of why most people suggest buying a racecar rather than trying to construct one. THe amount of time and associated costs to really dial a car in is mind-numbing...