That is quite clear, as you have posts in both of the threads I linked.

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If you'd rather listen to what you read there, that's fine. I'll stop posting.

No, I was just citing the source of the information I posted, Jeff Young, who seems to have been instrumental in writing the proposal. I was under the impression he was on the ITAC, but I may be mistaken. At the time I wrote that, the only public information I can find anywhere says the 928 was not supposed to be on the list. In fact a quick search of all the ITR threads I can find on the IT boards the only mention I can find of the 928 at all, is the comment that it was supposed to be deleted.

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But as I said, I was involved with the proposal and am on the IT Advisory Committee, i.e., an insider. The ITAC just had a conference call on Monday where this topic was discussed. The status of the 928 is not settled at this time.

Great, I hope it is included. With the power to weight, I bet it would be a good fit. Believe it or not everything involving Improved Touring does not need to be a pissing match.

BTW, I sent some dyno sheets to Jeff. I also contacted Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems, he says for a pro built 911 SC engine, 225 HP at the flywheel is reasonable with IT mods. If Steve says it can be done, then it can be done.

No, it has to be the stock injection. EFI cars can replace the ECU as long as it fits in the factory ECU box. Yeah, I know.

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For the weights, are those with driver and gas, or just gas?

That is as raced, with driver.

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Someone should show "them" the list that jluetjen posted and ask why the SC is at 11.69 lbs/HPest while all the other non-FWD cars are around 11.25.

George can probably clarify, but there is more to it than just power to weight.

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My guess is that you could get 215 hp at the crank with headers and carbs on the SC. Not sure you could get 225 though. The other changes that might help (overbore, compression increase) are expensive and would require me to take apart a perfectly good motor.

Yep. Then again, even a pro build IT Miata or VW motor is expensive. Not 911 expensive, but not cheap.

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I'm wondering about the feasibility of setting up a car that could run in both PCA stock classes and SCCA ITR. I guess adding carbs would move you up two classes in PCA to E.

I don't see why you couldn't do that, assuming the ITR class gets approved. It is just a proposal at this point.

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If someone could point me to a link for SCCA IT rules that would be very helpful. Wondering about brake upgrades, etc.

You can download the entire GCR here, or just the IT section. Brake upgrades would not be legal.
http://www.scca.org/Club/Index.asp?IdS=0C3323-3C2CE40&x=030|057&~=

Tom

Tom - thanks for your reply!

I don't think I could get my SC to 2630 lbs (-220 for my fat ass = 2410) and still keep all the pieces that are needed to be legal for PCA stock classes.

PCA requires 2552 lbs without driver for the US SCs.

Even if it could be done, getting 225 hp out of an SC with stock injection would be really expensive.

Right now my car with driver is probably 2770 lbs. With just exhaust change I'm around 200 hp at flywheel. That's 2770/200 = 13.85.

One of the BMW sedans or perhaps a Porsche 944S would appear to be good options for this new class.

Cheers,

Jeff

So leave it set up for PCA, and race a little heavy with SCCA. Or if there are things that can be removed easily (like the passenger seat) pull it out for SCCA weekends.

You may not have the most competitive car for ITR (assuming it is approved), but I bet you will still have fun. Isn't having fun the whole point?

I entered by ~100HP GTI in SCCA ITE class, and raced against the above mentioned 928, plus 500HP Evos and a couple other cars that greatly outclass me. So I didn't win, BFD. I had a lot of fun.

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PCA requires 2552 lbs without driver for the US SCs.

I still don't understand why PCA does weight this way. With driver is much more fair.

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Even if it could be done, getting 225 hp out of an SC with stock injection would be really expensive.

Good thing it isn't mandatory. Especially if you still want to run PCA Stock class.

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Right now my car with driver is probably 2770 lbs. With just exhaust change I'm around 200 hp at flywheel. That's 2770/200 = 13.85.

You know what is REALLY fun? Running down and passing a car that on paper should be a lot faster than yours.:D

Just because your car may not spec out at the top of the class, doesn't mean you can't still go racing.

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One of the BMW sedans or perhaps a Porsche 944S would appear to be good options for this new class.

My guess is the E36 BMWs are going to do well.

Tom

Keep in mind that just because with your car with driver and some lower budget HP result in 13.85 lbs/hp, doesn't mean that all of the other cars are making the predicted HP (and 11.25 lbs/hp). A lot of guys in IT build their own engines. There are even a lot of guys who just freshen up the motor and go race it, nothing sexy at all.

The most recent Sportscar has Huffaker Spec-Miata engines advertised for $6963. Compare that to a stock SC rebuild with some JE pistons with the allowed bump in CR, and a backdated exhaust system with Supertraps. The SC is not such a bad deal.

A lot of them don't even do that. I know some Miata and RX-7 guys who have used junkyard engines, without even opening them up.

Tom

Strictly verboten.

As raced, including driver.

Don't think it will do much good. Got to get some seriously reliable numbers. Just because someone says 225 bhp is not possible doesn't make it so. I'd say 99.99% of 944 owners don't believe it's possible for an 8v 944 to make 185 bhp under these rules, but Jon Milledge can do it.

The weights are based upon a 100% to the limit build by a professional race engine builder like Milledge or Sunbelt or the like.

Zero brake upgrade besides pads, lines, and fluid.

Here is a link to the IT rules:

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/ImprovedTouring.pdf

You'll also need the GCR:

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/updatedGCR.pdf

I can tell you with confidence that the 944S in ITR is a mistake. It is supposed to remain in ITS. I think a 944S2 could be a great car for the class though. Jake just picked one up. I'm excited for him to build it.

I think the early 928 would be awesome for ITR, but I think V8s in general are an issue at this time.

Kudos on sending stuff to Jeff Young. He's not on the ITAC, but he was instrumental in getting the proposal written and moved forward. He did an awesome job and I'd like to see him on the ITAC.

Thanks to everyone for the replies and to George for the links!

I wouldn't hesitate to enter my G car in an SCCA ITR race. I just wouldn't expect to be competitive, assuming the other entrants knew how to drive and weren't also driving SCs :)

Cheers,

Jeff

I wouldn't count out those first gen M3's either.

Why? They are a perfect fit for ITR. To the best of my (inside) knowledge, there has been no objections.