can you race air-cooled Porsches on a 'reasonable' budget?

[tiorio]

I've been down this road before, but not for quite a while. The wife has made mention that she would much rather me compete in autos than motorcycles (which has been my stand-in while working on everything else in life) for her perceived 'more wheels and steel = more safe' and who am I to complain?

I'd love to stay in my comfort zone of air-cooled Porsches but don't know how feasible it is anymore to get and outfit a car and race weekends with a shot at having competitive gear and not spend a fortune (relative I know).

I'd love to hear from any air-cooled racers about the current state of racing and the costs associated with keeping a competitive car in your class and what you're incurring each weekend you race.

I would really appreciate it!

[911st]

See this:

http://www.spec911.com/

[TRE Cup]

Spec 944 is a good group, albeit water cooled. Good community of fellow racers that help each other out, cheap cars to buy for parts, low risk exposure, cars handle well, and teach you a lot about wheel to wheel.
Best that you trailer your car to the races, as to be competitive it won't be street legal.
Most of your car consumables expense, after dialing the car in the first year , will be tires, then fuel.

PRC Spec 911 may be faster, but admission price is pretty high 40-50k for a well built car. Spec 996 even more expensive

what did some one ask ? " What part of the word grouping, Porsche Racing, did you think would be inexpensive? "

as you are located in so cal, consider the the 944. it has served several of our clients well in racing with nasa, poc, and others

[tiorio]

Thanks for all the responses thus far, I like the 944 as a platform for sure but I'm very comfortable with the early air cooled stuff (and have a strong affinity for)...

What about vintage or 2L stuff on the west coast (914s, 356s)?

Yeah I know it's going to not be cheap, you got to pay to play but I also would like to get some bang for the buck (which for me includes the wrenching on my own car part of it).

[gestalt1]

you probobly already know this but buying a built race car is far cheaper than converting into a racecar.

[ninesixfour]

What do you consider reasonable? Per weekend.

[tiorio]

Awesome question ninesixfour!

I suppose in reality the question would be 'how cheaply could you race air-cooled Porsches and be competitive' (knowing of course driver skill is the #1 variable and I'm a solid middle average on track).

I suppose I'm more trying to gauge what you guys have found is a good bang-for-buck and what that might be rather than 'is it affordable for me'. You've helped me phrase the question I really wanted to ask I think, thanks!

[TRE Cup]

racing a 356 or 914-4 will end up with engine expenses paralleling a 911

4 cylinders are just too expensive to keep up and have be competitive in the groups they race

so that leaves the following venues in so cal for you
POC- most of the field tends to run towards 3 liter and larger. So that means a 911SC or 3.2 carrera that can run you from 18k to 35k
(upper end of the range is a fully developed car)

VARA (vintage)- 2 liter or up to 2.5 : 5-7 events a year $25k and up

HSR west (vintage) 2 liter up to 3 liter different classes : 5-7 events a year
25k and up

[RaceProEngineer]

Originally Posted by tiorio

can you race air-cooled Porsches on a 'reasonable' budget?

No.

[ErVikingo]

Todd,

Figure out your budget and how flexible you can be on that. Definitely buy someone else's competitive race car. Careful with "track cars" as they are not necessarily race cars.

Go for the one with the most "right" parts hanging off of it and find someone you can trust to help you set it up to your style.

Define which car you like (air cooled 911!) then which group you prefer, which has the convenient venues for you, which is inline with your tolerance for contact (yep, must think of that regretfully).

Remember that running costs vary a lot with cars (tire sizes, fuel type, MTBF, MTBrebuild, etc).

[Eagledriver]

I figure about 1000 dollars per weekend, all inclusive. I have about 25k in my car (would have been much less if not for false starts and changed plans). I'm about 1 second slower than the fastest cars in our class at T-hill.

-Andy

[911st]

Spec911 race vid!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-685728020275054848#

I hear there is lots of competition no mater how fast you are. There are also some drivers that are very good with which you can compare your self to.

Find a used PCA 911SC race car and bolt some carbs on it and you are probably in the game. I good used 3.2 Carrera striped w safety gear, suspension, stock brakes and 1.5" headers & a chip with a good driver shold work to.

Spec Miata? Lots of competition and probably the lowest cost one is going to find. I have seen a Spec Miata give a lot of Porsche drivers fits at a DE.

[JohnJL]

Define "reasonable." 1 supersprint a month with the club will run you $4000-9000 per year in maintenance and tires. Thats the entry price.

[Cory M]

If you want to be competitive it's not going to be cheap, no matter if you're racing an aircooled 911 or a go kart. I agree with Dave that 944Spec is probably the most affordable way to race a Porsche. I've got one and the expenses (tires, fuel, maintenance, etc) are a lot cheaper than racing a 911. The rules are also very tight so the emphasis is on the driver rather than buying the latest go fast parts. You should really take a trip a Porsche Owners Club or PCA event to check it out and talk to the racers.

[ninesixfour]

If Spec911 is switching to the Toyo RA-1 for 2010, this will really cut costs. Buying a $1000 set of Hoosiers for every (or even every other, if you're stingy like me) PCA race weekend gets expensive, and unless you're already 2 seconds faster than everyone else when they're on their new tires, there is no way to compete without them since just about every person comes with a new set for every race. The RA-1s will be as fast from the first heat cycle as they are just before they cord, which could be in excess of 50, and they cost a lot less to buy in the first place.

In PCA, $1000 a weekend will get you entered into the race and your half set of Hoosiers, but you won't even have left your driveway yet! You'll still have to tow to and from the event, pay for the hotel, food, fuel for the race car, etc. If you were really picky and an accountant, you could include brake pad wear, rotor wear, saving for engine rebuilds, oil changes, brake bleeds, a re-tub....the list goes on and on. If you can do any of the maintenance yourself, you can save a LOT of money. But most who have the money to race don't have the time to work on their cars, and vice versa.

So for me, the answer to your question is no, but again, you need to decide what is reasonable to you.

[porsche4life]

Look into spec 944. There was one for sale here recently that was RTR with a fresh motor for 4k. Doesnt get much better than that.

[pgeorgeson]

[QUOTE=ninesixfour;4913950]If Spec911 is switching to the Toyo RA-1 for 2010, this will really cut costs. Buying a $1000 set of Hoosiers for every (or even every other, if you're stingy like me) PCA race weekend gets expensive, and unless you're already 2 seconds faster than everyone else when they're on their new tires, there is no way to compete without them since just about every person comes with a new set for every race. The RA-1s will be as fast from the first heat cycle as they are just before they cord, which could be in excess of 50, and they cost a lot less to buy in the first place.


Spec911 already requires RA-1s as the mandatory tires. The only question for 2010 is whether they will be available, or whether we have to switch. If there is switch, it will be to a similar tire that can run for multiple weekends (not to Hoosiers).

[cstreit]

Yep. $1000 per weekend is a good budget. (plus maintenance)

Round numbers:

Gas - $150
Hotel - $250
Food - $100
Tires - $250
Entry - $250

IF you do not break.
IF you do not over-mod the car (cause more stuff breaks the faster you go).
IF you don't stay in the Four Seasons
IF you don't feel you need a new set of Hoosiers every 8 heat cycles.
IF you do most of the work yourself.

2-3x it if you start the drive to be uber-competetive.

So it really depends on your version of affordable you know?

[J Smith]

Originally Posted by RaceProEngineer

No.

X2.

Perfect answer Ed.

[tiorio]

First off, you guys are a fantastic resource. Thanks!

Secondly, the answer to how much does it cost (esp. the numbers from TRE Cup) is not really as horrible as I had feared. It's not cheap but it's not insane either. It's almost 'reasonable' to me, but my priorities in life are a bit skewed towards gasoline so...

I think maybe the spec 944s might be a good option, I do like the vintage iron but I'm also wary of the propensity for old stuff to break when pushed hard. It's a tough call and will probably depend on what prepped car bites me within the classes I'm considering.

Time to get dust off the checkbook and think about writing some checks either way. Really great info. guys, really appreciated!