Need Advice On Building A POC "V" Race Car

Onassis91 · 08-19-2008, 09:43 PM

Hello,
In the coming months I am looking at getting in over my head by way of building a POC "V" race car and I need some basic advice to start making a budget with. I am looking to build a car for the V3 class which is up to 51 performance points. I would like to build the most efficent car possible. So, if you guys could answer the following questions I would really appreciate it:

1. What is a solid year 911 chassis to start with?

2. What is a solid motor package to use?

3. How would I go about makiing the trans. sequential shifting (bump-style)?

4. Is a carbon fiber body worth the extra $$$

5. What is the most aerodynamically efficent body style to use?

6. What style of suspension would fit the car well and not be overkill (i.e. single adjustable, double adjustable Motons JRZ, etc.)?

I know I have a ton more questions but, those are the ones that come straight of the head.

Thanks!

gulf911 · 08-20-2008, 07:35 AM

I would recommend contacting Jeff at Aase Motors 714-992-2283, these guys will know exactly what you need and can do the work as well. They build/maintain many V cars for POC.

Cory M · 02:14 PM

Are you building it yourself or paying a shop to do it?

Either way you need to spend some time studying the rulebook and analyzing the top cars to see where they used their points. The top V3 cars are built to the rulebook and optimized for their class.

1) Any non-sunroof hardtop 911 will work, there are fast cars built with SC, Carrera, Mid-year, and early chassis.

2) The top cars are all running 3.2's

3) I'm not certain if it is legal, but Wevo makes a dog box conversion with straight cut Guard gears. You won't need a dogbox to be competitive but you will need to regear the trans and get a good limited slip diff.

4) You can go with fiberglass instead of carbon for a lot less money and similar weight savings. Doors, hood, tail, and bumpers will shed a lot of pounds. Fenders and quarters aren't needed to make weight but if you are going widebody anyway (which you should be doing) you can do them in fiberglass too and save even more weight.

5) I think the 993 is a more aerodynamic shape but most cars run standard 930 turbo style bodies. They added a rule last year with maximum widths, so if you go too wide you have to take a couple of points.

6) Adjustable shocks and coilovers add points, most cars are using revalved bilsteins with raised spindles and STIFF torsion bars.

How much racing experience do you have? Are you licensed with the POC now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onassis91

Hello,
In the coming months I am looking at getting in over my head by way of building a POC "V" race car and I need some basic advice to start making a budget with. I am looking to build a car for the V3 class which is up to 51 performance points. I would like to build the most efficent car possible. So, if you guys could answer the following questions I would really appreciate it:

1. What is a solid year 911 chassis to start with?

2. What is a solid motor package to use?

3. How would I go about makiing the trans. sequential shifting (bump-style)?

4. Is a carbon fiber body worth the extra $$$

5. What is the most aerodynamically efficent body style to use?

6. What style of suspension would fit the car well and not be overkill (i.e. single adjustable, double adjustable Motons JRZ, etc.)?

I know I have a ton more questions but, those are the ones that come straight of the head.

Thanks!

Onassis91 · 08-20-2008, 12:55 PM

I have a friend that is a full-time Porsche mechanic and another friend who worked for Porsche and BMW racing teams in the late 90's. And I will pay them to help me build the car (mainly dis-assembly and assembly) at my shop. I will sub-out things like bodywork, motor & trans work as well as the roll cage. In terms of experience I raced shifter karts competitively from when I was 8 to 18 then did several tests in bigger formula and GT race cars but, was never able to establish a ride due to a lack of funding. I have also done several performance driving courses. I would really like to be involved in the building process and have close to all the tools necessary to perform the build and I am prepared to buy any tools that I need.

All the info is really appreciated!

John Rogers · 08-20-2008, 02:30 PM

In 1998 I had the same thought and wanted to build a car but several friends said no, wait till fall and see what comes up for sale. That's what I did and got a better deal than I could ever get even doing all the work myself. The engine was tired but it made it through the 1st year I had it so I could use it to learn the car with.

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

You will definitely save money buying a prepared race car, BUT, I am just as into the journey and doing right, the way I want, as I am the end result. It does cost more, but personally I get much more satisfaction in driving my own creation than driving one built for me, and w/ the resources on this BBS the sky is the limit!

You can stay V3 w/ a 3.6 in an earlier chassis w/ exhaust, big torsion/sway bars, cage, raised spindles, turbo brakes, wheels, trans, lots of fun stuff.

The best advice was download the rules and go through the options to see where you want to be, then figure out which way to get there works best for you.

KillerBee · KillerBee's Garage

You've selected an extremely competitive Class with some of our best drivers!!

Cory M · 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surflvr911sc

You will definitely save money buying a prepared race car, BUT, I am just as into the journey and doing right, the way I want, as I am the end result. It does cost more, but personally I get much more satisfaction in driving my own creation than driving one built for me, and w/ the resources on this BBS the sky is the limit!

You can stay V3 w/ a 3.6 in an earlier chassis w/ exhaust, big torsion/sway bars, cage, raised spindles, turbo brakes, wheels, trans, lots of fun stuff.

The best advice was download the rules and go through the options to see where you want to be, then figure out which way to get there works best for you.

Buying a front running car is almost always cheaper and easier than building it yourself. One of the fastest V3 cars was for sale a few months back in the POC classifieds for a very good price, WAY less than it would cost to build and sort, it's not there anymore so I don't know if it sold or if the add just expired (if you're seriously interested send me a PM and I can give you some contact info).

As for running a 3.6 and turbo brakes in V3 - yes it can be done but I don't think it would be competitive in Cup Racing. Here is the rule:

18.1.4 Any pre-1990 vehicle in V Class may use a 1989-1994 3.6 liter engine. Car shall start with K basepoints and C2 Carrera VIN weight, and may upgrade to 911 Turbo/930 brakes.

K has 38 base points and the C2 off-track weight is 2940. Once you add in your Prepared points (13 minimum) you are at 51 - the V3 limit before you even get to any V- class modifications. If you bolt on a splitter or leading edge wing or go widebody you get bumped to V2. Most of the cars you are running against will be 400-600 pounds lighter than you, which is huge. A stock 3.6 should put down more power than balanced and blue-printed 3.2 but I don't believe the difference is enough to overcome the weight penalty. A car like this would be a lot of fun on track but I don't think it could be a serious contender for the V3/R5 championship.

Onassis91 · 08-21-2008, 02:25 PM

I have seen some for sale for $35,000 but, I would rather construct it myself for the extra money (I assume it's double the cost?).

gulf911 · 08-21-2008, 02:40 PM

While many in V3 have 3.2's , one of the fastest in the class is a Built 2.9. Yes ,to build a competitve car from scratch easily double that. Then figure $1000+ in Tires per weekend alone. If you do farm out the motor and trans please do give Jeff a call , They will build to your specs and help you with Class info and what you can and can't do.

Onassis91 · 08-21-2008, 04:47 PM

On the cover of the POC rule book there is a #39 RSR bodied car. Does anyone know where I can find some phtos of it?

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory M

K has 38 base points and the C2 off-track weight is 2940. Once you add in your Prepared points (13 minimum) you are at 51 - the V3 limit before you even get to any V- class modifications.

Ahh good call, my bad. I forgot that you had to use 13 points minimum when going into V. I don't really agree w/ that rule, you are already taking K base points and if you don't use the allowable Prepared mods you shouldn't have to take the points, but I digress, there it is in black and white.

Many often assume that everyone is out for the Championship when in reality many of us are happy to just have a couple other cars out there that really give us a run for our money and make us work for it. I can dream about seeing myself at the top of the podium on the Speed Channel but the reality is that I don't have the time or money to get there and I have other things that I enjoy doing too. Doesn't mean I still can't have a ton of fun out there.

Cory M · 08-22-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onassis91

On the cover of the POC rule book there is a #39 RSR bodied car. Does anyone know where I can find some phtos of it?

If you've got time to kill you could look through the photo galleries on the POC website and the red group pictures here:

http://drjmotorsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Dave%20R%20Johnson%202008%20Motorsports%20Gallerie s/455341

http://drjmotorsportsphoto.smugmug.com/Dave%20R%20Johnson%202007%20Motorsports%20Gallerie s/278802

SandyI · 08-22-2008, 09:13 PM

V3 is tough. If I were you, I'd budget $100,000 for the build. Then if you end up at $70,000, you'll feel good. Personally? I'd purchase a 996 GT3 and skip V3 altogether. Of course, I'm in GI so what do I know anyhow?

Cory M · 08-25-2008, 07:23 AM

Onassis91 : I sent you a PM

Tinker · 08-26-2008, 04:15 PM

Great advise so far. Forget about the 3.6 with an early chassis. BTDT. As Cory states, after you ballast the car up to weight, it will not be competitive.

My buddy built a V3 class winning car a few years back. After the wammy box and all the other mods / tricks to be front runner, he had close to $60k into it. If you just want to have fun and mix it up, you could build a V3 car for a bit less.

I'd advise you to rent a ride for a few events to make sure you want to invest the cash.

Personally, I'd recommend a spec racer where the driver, not the equipment and depth of one's wallet, has a greater influence on the finishing order.

Tinker

SandyI · 08-26-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Personally, I'd recommend a spec racer where the driver, not the equipment and depth of one's wallet, has a greater influence on the finishing order.

Great advice. Spec Boxster is the fastest growing POC class. If you're a talented mechanic, you can be competitive for less than $30,000.