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UFLYICU
 
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Brake Pad retainer springs necessary?

I've never even considered that they weren't, until I saw a car at the track without 'em. Any reason to believe the pins would wiggle their way out without the springs? These are factory Carrera calipers.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:05 AM
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my backs have a kotter pin affair and the fronts like to pin in with a slotted sleve that expands in the mount ho. SC brakes though .... i says the pin type you might get away with it, the friction held units nah-dah. i reckon there's no harm in keeping them in place even on big heavy ol g-phitty. seems things would vibrate a whole bunch more & vibration means increased wear on tiny teeny important parts.... let's get stomp to try it 1st...
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:52 AM
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You can bet if they weren't necessary, Porsche would have tried to save DM by eliminating them.... Of course, the benefit of removing them is all that weight you save...
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:43 AM
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Funny you mention Stomp, T$, that's who left them off his rears.

jimbauman, I'm certain they are necessary for street applications, most likely for reducing rattle. Aside from the enormous weight loss, there seems to be a reasonable amount of heat trapped by them as well.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:32 PM
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But knowing Stomp, he just forgot....
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:33 PM
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haha! good point!
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:33 PM
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I don't think they're necessary. The pad retainer pins are a pretty tight fit, so they're not likely to rattle loose. The spring force from the springs is not that great, so I don't think they're offering anything but anti-rattle feature.

Think of this another way- the Brembos which followed the Carrera calipers have nothing but the hasp and sticky spiders (spiders are always removed). That hasp can pop open a whole lot easier than the tension pins on the Ate calipers? I know from experience that the pads in a Brembo can clatter a bit w/out the spiders but in no way are they at risk of falling out.

That being said, most racing calipers have solid bridges with fasteners to hold the pads in place

http://www.apracing.com/drawings/CP3799-1CD.pdf

or the caliper body itself holds the pad in and there's no removal of parts to change out the pads

http://www.apracing.com/drawings/CP6056-11cd.pdf
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:22 PM
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Personally I don't see why you would want to leave them off. I myself have had glazed pads at the track that caused enough vibration that the pins had started to back out, and I have to believe they would have done just that without the extra friction of the springs
anyway, Our pads are the easiest in the world to change as it is
Old 06-14-2010, 02:19 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. I left them in, and I'll just lose the weight elsewhere. It just puzzled me when I saw the ones without them.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:03 AM
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Been removing them for 26 years now, and remove them on all of our late model dedicated track cars. Rotor temps went down (tested at Daytona this year) With them removed, the rotor has a more clear path to exhaust the hot air buildup.

Daytona test was on ATE UFO rotors (gas slotted) and Performance friction pads and the Hoosier/Continental race tires for G/A.

Porsche put them there to keep the noise down from pad rattle.

I view them as one more part that can fail from fatigue and make noises my drivers don't want to hear

Last year at the VIR PCA Club race, a 996 (with the spring devices in place) lost the pin in his left front caliper after he forgot to install the clip into the end of the pad shaft (after installing new pads) The spring clip just prolonged the inevitable. The pin slipped out and one brake pad managed to work its way out of the caliper causing complete brake failure and a big ole nasty wreck


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Old 06-16-2010, 12:06 AM
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clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTL View Post
I don't think they're offering anything but anti-rattle feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Roberts View Post
Been removing them for 26 years now, and remove them on all of our late model dedicated track cars. Rotor temps went down (tested at Daytona this year) With them removed, the rotor has a more clear path to exhaust the hot air buildup.

Porsche put them there to keep the noise down from pad rattle.
Yep, what they said.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:08 AM
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Sweet! real racer experience always rules. Thanks again, I can use all the weight loss I can get!
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Old 06-16-2010, 01:40 PM
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I was in NorCal running cars when the only Spec911 running was Rich Walton

I miss NorCal.



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Old 06-16-2010, 03:37 PM
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Come on back, Brad. We're up to nearly 30 cars in the class, and Rich is driving a Cup car for Mercer Motorsports these days.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:44 AM
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I'll be back Just getting all the big ducks in a row before we comeback. I had some insiders at Rich's first test session in the Cup car at Laguna a year or so back before he ran the Patron cup event. It was a natural progression for him! It was cool of Johannes to hook him up with Mercer!!


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Old 06-17-2010, 09:16 AM
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Yeah, and I think Mercer got themselves a quality driver in Rich. That guy can flog a car. As for Johannes, I've only just begun to forgive him for leaving the Lizards. He certainly drove a hell of a race in the Ferrari at Laguna, tho.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:12 AM
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Is there any reason to think the clips might help hold the pads back and reduce brake drag?
Old 06-24-2010, 08:59 AM
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I would think the springs can cause more drag since they firmly hold down the pads. W/out the springs the pads are allowed to "float" & the rotor's slight axial runout would push the pads away
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:57 AM
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Thanks Keven.

Once they are pushed away, what keeps them from moving around and draging on the rotor.

I know the new MBZ's have a technology that pulls the pads away from the rotors for less drag. Then if conditions sense a need for braking it moves the pads close to the rotor in wate.

Cool stuf.
Old 06-24-2010, 02:04 PM
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Post-race report: I left the springs removed, and no braking issues at all.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:48 PM
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:48 PM
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