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-   -   suspension unicorn (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/984628-suspension-unicorn.html)

quattrorunner 01-18-2018 09:01 AM

suspension unicorn
 
I figured this might be the right forum section to ask my suspension questions.
I have a 77 build year 76 911s that has wide body and turbo 3.3 efi engine and 930 gearbox. The suspension is unknown but handled really well before the widebody, and is alright now I guess but I want much better stick.
I have rsr coilover setup ready for install but unsure what springs I have. I'll need advise as to how I can get my car to handle like better than good AND it's a DD with aspirations for track work.
I just got out of a fun track session in a totally modern sports car and am really
Jones-ing for some similar track manners.
I considered selling my car for it but realized my car is too cool and IS capable of more performance and possibly better performance than the factory stock sportscar I drove, Transmission aside.
I want to whinn!
Please give me the hot setup advise for amazing grip including tires even nif it's race slicks 8-)
My wheels are 17X9 and 11 fikse. I love driving canyons hard and also want to not kill my spleen driving to work....
Ideas?
Car

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516298464.jpg

Driven97 01-18-2018 09:26 AM

Kinda been discussed ad naseum. You're not going to get a chassis / suspension designed in the 1960s to work like a car designed in the 2010s. Sorry.

Ballpark reccomendations:

Se the car up for <2.0Hz ride frequency (chassis just isn't stiff enough,) get digressive valved shocks matched to the spring rate, get rid of as much suspension bind as possible, pick tires that match your intended use, and align and swaybar to taste.

wildcat077 01-18-2018 09:44 AM

Like Matt states , you'll never get the same feeling with an older 911 as in newer cars with all the driver help doodas like traction control, ABS , etc ...
Learn how to drive your car to it's full potential and you won't need a new car
with all the electronics !

Sure you can think you're fast in a new car when the dash lights up like a christmas tree but you'll never improve your driving skills ...

quattrorunner 01-18-2018 04:56 PM

Perhaps better suggestions might be available?
I do realize this is an old car, but it's also light and if stiffened up, might be pretty good..
I'm happy with no electro-nannies. But the stick is something I just don't have yet. I want that.

Driven97 01-19-2018 12:27 PM

Where does the car let you down? You've got more tire/weight than a hell of a lot of cars, so if all is well with even stock suspension it shouldn't be disappointing.

quattrorunner 01-19-2018 12:41 PM

Well to start I’m pushing as is. I don’t have great tires but I know my suspension is not new and I wanted to know what to look at with parts that would go along with my as yet in installed coil over kit.

Driven97 01-19-2018 01:52 PM

Well tires are the only interaction a car has with the road so that's a good place to start.

quattrorunner 01-19-2018 02:08 PM

True.

rkeele 01-19-2018 04:29 PM

Matt has it right Tires Tires probably the most important thing, my car started pushing in turns when I had slicks on that were so big I couldn't get enough heat in the fronts raising front air pressure heips or lower rear pressure, less front swaybar, more rearbar I don't know what tires you have, since you want to drive it in the street you'll need a tire that works well for both Toyo or Nitto makes good ones, or get another set of rims and go to Hoosiers R7's all not cheap but makes a major diff. As for coilovers on the street I don't have any idea my car is a dedicated track car running 600lb fronts and 800lb rear

quattrorunner 01-19-2018 07:50 PM

Thatís some good info and it does make lots of sense. My front tires are actually my old rears and I can tell you theyíre worked. They have some tread but have been on the car for three summers.
Iíll start with some new tires. .

rkeele 01-20-2018 08:56 AM

look at the wear rating on the tire the higher the number the harder the tire you want a low wear rated tire or softer tire for track duty. after that you might look at Tarret, or Rebel Racing for suspension upgrades, also Elephant racing.

Bill Verburg 01-20-2018 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattrorunner (Post 9891063)
I figured this might be the right forum section to ask my suspension questions.
I have a 77 build year 76 911s that has wide body and turbo 3.3 efi engine and 930 gearbox. The suspension is unknown but handled really well before the widebody, and is alright now I guess but I want much better stick.
I have rsr coilover setup ready for install but unsure what springs I have. I'll need advise as to how I can get my car to handle like better than good AND it's a DD with aspirations for track work.
I just got out of a fun track session in a totally modern sports car and am really
Jones-ing for some similar track manners.
I considered selling my car for it but realized my car is too cool and IS capable of more performance and possibly better performance than the factory stock sportscar I drove, Transmission aside.
I want to whinn!
Please give me the hot setup advise for amazing grip including tires even nif it's race slicks 8-)
My wheels are 17X9 and 11 fikse. I love driving canyons hard and also want to not kill my spleen driving to work....
Ideas?
Car

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516298464.jpg

Nice car!

I think Driven 97 summed it up

I'll just add that getting the most out of the older cars will always take a lot more work and skill than doing the same w/ a newer car. I'd just say don't worry about it and enjoy the experience even if you aren't the fastest guy on the track.

Sboxin 01-20-2018 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattrorunner (Post 9892682)
Well to start Iím pushing as is. I donít have great tires but I know my suspension is not new and I wanted to know what to look at with parts that would go along with my as yet in installed coil over kit.

We went thru this process also - coil overs, dyno tuned dampers, etc.
Our 2500# race car is on 400/600# springs with Elephant tuned dampers to match.

We use R7 HoHos 245/40/17 FR 315/35/17 Rear - - for street/track you might use
Nitto NT01 . . . they last longer.

Front Push . . . lots of camber and like rkeele said before sway bar and tire pressures
make a big difference

And . . . like everyone has said - its very difficult to match the new car's improved suspension and computers . . .

Regards,

quattrorunner 01-20-2018 01:51 PM

Thanks you guys. Very helpful. I'll start with tires and move onto the suspension install and see how things go there:)

quattrorunner 01-20-2018 01:58 PM

What about cages? Does that help with chassis stiffening? I mean I know it will but noticeably?

Mahler9th 01-20-2018 03:21 PM

This shop may be relatively local to you and be able to give you some further perspective:

900seriesm.com - 900 Series Motorsports - Exclusively Porsche - Las Vegas

Cages can be great for safety AND stiffening, but are not the best choice for a street car from a safety standpoint.

It is really easy to get an older 911 handling well and folks have been doing since the first car were delivered by Porsche AG.

What may not be easy any more is finding truly experienced and knowledgeable resources.

Many of the best never come anywhere internet forums.

I have had my '75 911 since 2001 and it has always handled really well. Sub 2,000 pounds with between 310 and 370 bhp through the years from 3.6 - 3.8 engines. 16 inch tires (currently 12 wide in front and 14 wide in back). Primarily a race car, but registered for the street (smog exempt).

Several cars like mine are coming free from local owners moving on to their next life phases.

It just isn't that hard to get and apply known handling recipes.

The most important part is the definition of handling goals.

kjchristopher 01-20-2018 04:13 PM

Get good tires and let us know what your f/r suspension frequencies currently are. Then we can begin to give you some tips.

wildcat077 01-21-2018 08:44 AM

I have a rare no longer available OG Racing bolt in roll cage which was in my 89 when i was tracking it , very well built and good fit ... pm me if you're interested !
The front section can easily be removed whenever you drive on the street and reinstalled for track weekends.

tips 01-23-2018 02:12 AM

Ive driven 80s 911's that handled better than gt3's. Needs lots of reading and money

Driven97 01-23-2018 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tips (Post 9896922)
Ive driven 80s 911's that handled better than gt3's. Needs lots of reading and money

Posts like this irk me. There's zero information, so it's not helpful at all. You're just sending our OP off on a wild goose chase towards a poorly defined goal.

Handles better how? Lap time on a race track? On an autocross course? Your personal subjective feel through the canyons? What modifications were made to this 80s 911? Where would OP "read" to make this happen? Does he guess? How much money would he need to spend, would it be as much as selling his car and actually buying a GT3? Oh, and which GT3, a 2004? A 2018 GT3?

Quote:

I have rsr coilover setup ready for install but unsure what springs I have. I'll need advise as to how I can get my car to handle like better than good AND it's a DD with aspirations for track work.
Just re-read this, and noticed the car is a DD. To me it's critical you focus on making the car within your comfort tolerance range for DD as the first priority. It's possible to make a nice driver and still enjoy the car at the track, it's also very easy to get so focused on lap times that you make the car pretty terrible for anything else. Nobody has ever "won" a open track day.


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