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Have you looked into changing out the ring and pinion? That would give you better gearing in all gears.
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Mitch, what was the total cost to have rh do that? Calif motorsports charges in the area of 3k to 3.5k depending on time to freshen up the tranny but that does not include gears at about 1k a piece. Swapping just 5th gear is about 1k for the gear plus about 2 hours of labor if they only have the tranny and don't have to drop the motor...
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Ring and Pinion...
My cost was north of 3.5M, but they went through the entire transaxle. Renegade sent it out to a well known Porsche racing shop. So I had a middle man, but at that point I was trying to work with Renegade since it was early in the project. The transaxle is buttery smooth. I love the gearing, with nearly 400 HP at the rear wheels I don't need to be smoking $300 tires from every stop sign.
Here's a gearing chart for my setup: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410988675.jpg |
I also have a question about tire size. I have stock rims/Fuchs with tires:
205/55R16 - I believe the rim to be 6.5 x 16 and 225/50R16 - I belive the rim to be 7 x 16 Is there a tire size that I should go with to give me a taller height which would lower my rpms at the same speed? How large can I comfortably go with these rims or is there a larger rim with certain tire size that will fit the narrow body 89 911 without any issues? :) |
just read this whole thread over the past two days....inspirational. Thanks for the great documentation and r&d.
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Mitch, I spoke with them at Gbox. The R and P is approx. $3500 just for the part. Probably the same to install. However, they really do give great advise and I recommend them for taking the time to explain a lot of variables and solutions.
How many people changed gears or ring and pinions? Chime in here please! Are they louder? |
I almost went that way with my second 914 -- nearly bought a fresh 327 -- but decided it was "sacrilege" to take away the uber-character of the euro-engine, and that just hearing that flat-6 whine making music everywhere you go was too much to give up for a V-8. In the end I converted 2 914's to 914-6's by myself and was ecstatic with the results. Now, I drive a 74 911 that had a 3.0SC swapped in by the prior owner -- and I really feel that more power would just be more than I could enjoy in a daily driver. As is -- I reach 99mph so fast it's almost disappointing (they can arrest you for 100). If you really want the V-8 -- buy a 1975 or older so you're exempt from smog. Even the older ones can be "updated" inside & out to make it look however you want.
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Final thought on gears. I am leaning in to swapping out my 5th gear only. You guys have all read why. I have rear tires that are 225/50R16 so I think that means that my circumference is 24.86" or say 25".
I like my gears except for highway and realize 1st is only good for my driveway so 2 thru 4th are my normal drive around gears. 5th needs to be tall to solve my issues. A G5050 5th gear is usually .767 with a final drive ration of 3.44. My G5001 has the same drive ratio but the 5th gear is .89 A comfortable driving rpm on the highway should be around 2500. At 3000 rpm my g5001 is at 73 MPH. With a G5050 5th gear it would be at 85 and with an aftermarket gear that will probably make some noise using a .656 gives me 99 MPM. Dropping down to 2000 RPM with a .656 gives me 69 MPH. That seems nice and quiet for the highway. 2500 is at 86 MPH with a switch out of my 5th to .656 I know the drop in noise from the rpm will be nice but will that be out weighed by the gear noise. I like the rpm drop more then what I see with the G5050. Let me know what you think. It is winter time - time to do a switch... |
I have a tall 5th in my 914. Granted the tranny is out back and I don't know who made the gear RH supplied. I don't hear any annoying noise. I know that some aftermarket gears can be LOUD, I've had that experience with diff gears too. BUT, then you have the noise in all gears, not just 5th.
I like my RH 5th and its behind a 327. Pulls like a locomotive as the mph climbs faster than the tach with only 2100lbs :D Erik @ GBox, when you get his attention, is a knowledgeable and nice guy. Sometimes I've had trouble of recently getting a response on my GT2 box from him. |
Luke, can you find out what tall gear they put in? If it is a tall Porsche gear then their would be no additional noise. A tall Guard or Albins, I was told, makes some good noise. Is this true?
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Just ordered a tall Guard 5th gear .667
I have given it a lot of thought as to whether to get the Ring and Pinion also (Albins 3.1). The spread of gained MPH and lower RPM was more pronounced in the higher RPM/MPH range. My goal was to lower rpm in the comfort area for cruising and the tall 5th seemed to be the answer. If money was not an issue I would have done both. For now just a tall 5th. I also found a really nice online gear calculator: Gear Ratio Calculator | Weddle Industries | High Performance Driveline Components for Race Vehicles | Off-Road Transaxles, Clutches, Gears |
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The gear set has arrived
Got my Christmas Present today...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419612743.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419612818.jpg |
Gear is in. Engine is going back in.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420287695.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420287786.jpg |
Took forever for RH to answer email. And then they didn't really give me an answer. Good progress! I may eventually try the CaymanS trans in my 914 to improve shifting from the tall 901.
Good luck with install. Nice pics |
G50 01 Fifth Gear Swap
Here are some photos provided by Tom at Advanced Automotive of New Windsor. Hopefully someone can use the photos for their own swap if that helps...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496829.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496847.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496862.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496881.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496900.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496911.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496922.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496965.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420496983.jpg |
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Radiator Options
I'm not sure what you have decided about cooling but I am planning to use two of these for my ez30 conversion. One will fit behind my valence without cutting into the tub and the other behind the motor. I'll need to have the inlet/outlets enlarged but thats about it I hope. Any opinions on these?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420588676.jpg
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You will need a certain amount of square inches. I think you will need a lot more then that to cool. What are their sizes? Can't wait to see some photos of where you are now with your car. What kind of horsepower will you see? I would love to see how you mount it in the rear. Are there any new photos of your build?
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No new pics worth posting. Fuel system is recently finished and I made a bracket to hold the coil pack and FPR. I adapted a camaro fuse and relay panel to run my fuel pump etc but its been so long I've forgotten all the connections so it has to come out of the car so I can trace all the wires. This is certainly a learning experience. The heat exchangers are approx 26X7X3 so two of them approximate a stock radiator
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Just to update:
The new Guard 5th gear is in and all is back together. Took the car on a 20 mile ride. The gear noise is not very noticeable. I certainly can here it but nothing at all to worry about. The car drives great with a large reduction in rpms! At 3200 rpms I am at 100 MPH At 3500 rpms I am at 110 MPH. This will solve any rise in radiator temps on the highway. Next step is to create my heating for the car. The air conditioning works wonderful but I have no heat to help defrost the windows! |
Electrical question on a 997...
I had a PM from someone who was asking about hooking up an LS motor in a 997. For whatever reason his question has gone South and lost in cyber space. If you're out there, please write me again.
Thanks, |
I finally have heat! I haven't attached the planned fan on my heater core yet. I only had my footwell blowers to pull the heat in through the stock heater ducts and it worked! I had heat tonight and it was pretty warm. The heater cores attach directly to the heater duct ends right at the flapper with a Spring disappeared for a couple days here in NY so I was able to test the system a little and so far so good.
I also took my car out on the highway for 40 miles to make sure I would break any lines tomorrow morning. I am going to watch the races at Lime Rock and will bring my car in case anyone else is there... Once again I tested the RPM and temps and could not get above 190 degrees but it is cold outside 3000 rpm in 5th 94mph (assumed and theoretical) 3500 rpm in 5th 111mph (assumed and theoretical) 4000 rpm in 5th 125mph (assumed and theoretical) Here is a photo of my heater setup. I know that a lot of things in this build are big bucks so this is my two cents on a heater system that is not so "big bucks"... and seems to work so far. Some of the fittings were changed in the final fitting to get the correct fit with the hoses. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1429925232.jpg And I didn't use the fan setup on the left side yet. I wanted to see if the footwell blowers would be enough. The tip of my heater core setup goes into each of the wheel wells. (I have two of these in total - one on each heater duct) I could add a 90 or a 270 degree silicone hose at the end of the heater core to point the air that is coming into the core towards the front of the car or front of the wheel well... |
A nice day driving the beast!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430700123.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430700156.jpg With my new 17" Euromeisters! |
sweet heater core setup
Hi,
Man that heater setup is way cool. Did you fabricate that yourself? Can you upload more photos of how you mounted it? Thanks, Mike |
Hey Mike,
you need two of these: and two of these: along with some hose clamps. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430765593.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430765614.jpg If you have footwell blowers you don't really need a fan at the end of the intercooler. The intercooler is acting just like a heater core. Perhaps someone can fabricate a better one but it really works. It certainly keeps the windows clear from dew and fog. I think it would keep ice off also but I haven't tried it in the dead of the winter. It would be great if there was room to mount it somewhere on the RH engine cradle... Mine has enough room to reach at an angle to the edge of the wheel well right near the rear strut. On the side (driver's side) with the water pump the return of the intercooler shoots back just before the water pump which pulls the coolant back to the motor. On the side where the coolant leaves the motor I tee off and send 3/4 hose to one barrel intercool and the other tee to the other intercooler. Both returns from the intercooler meet at a tee just under the water pump and go back into the return line from the radiator. |
Here are some photos of the install...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430766328.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430766345.jpg The wiring took a little bit of work and help to figure things out. Since most of the wires in the engine compartment that dealt with the engine fan had been cut I had to figure out which wire (yellow) triggered the fan previously by pulling up the levers between the seats. That triggered wire then powered a black wire that went back to my manual dial and energized the footwell blowers. I had a thread here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/854351-footwell-blower-89-911-operating-question.html regarding the wiring. |
heater core placement
Thanks for the pictures. Its amazing what you can get on ebay.
For some reason I was picturing the heat exchanger being mounted up front, but I see from the photos you put them in the back. I ran my cooling lines through the heater duct work (rather than under the car), so that setup won't work for me. Im kinda hoping to use a universal air unit, mounted under the dash. Somewhere on this forum there is a guy (from TX) that installed one, seemed like he had good success. |
yan2927 what does your A/C system look like.
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Basically just normal with better hoses then original. I have two Spal fans on the rear condenser with room for a third but I don't seem to need it. Everything functions as new. The compressor is just GM.
Hope that helps. I used a local AC company that I knew very well. |
OK cool thanks
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Spyker radiator design
I was at a Spyker car cruise yesterday. Thought of taking some photos of the Spyker radiator design and routing for all you front mounted radiator peeps...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1445177170.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1445177469.jpg Out the hood the hot air goes... I have seen a 911 somewhere on this site with such a hood. Looks fine on a Spyker. Not sure about a 911 but it must do the job. |
For everyone looking for radiator options - I still have my 89 911 ls1 with a toy-jet rear radiator. It still works. I have never overheated. I have gone through the thoughts of the front valance radiator setup but when I was done it didn't seem like it was an easy option. I thought that having a simple additional radiator up front would be enough to cool the radiator on long highway rides. The end result was getting a tall 5th gear. I have taken the car to the 1/4 track and never had a problem even on upper 90 degree days. The high rpm on the long road would be the problem and getting the tallest 5th gear dropped the rpm's down to an area that I have never worried about. The LS motors run hot. I do not think there is much of a coolant temp difference between the front radiator options and the rear mounts. At least with the rear mounts you could all test out the theory on your own. Take off the lid and mount a horizontal radiator without much effort like I did and drive it. Mount a good spal fan and you could have your car running in no time. Get your numbers, change a gear or two - you need to do that regardless. Plan on a reallllllly tall first gear and your daily driver/occasional 1/4 car would be perfect. Not sure about a track but 1/4 no problem on hot days. If you drop the rpm you won't overheat. I have the toyjet wing after making my own and trying to retro fit radiators in different wings. The end result was that Clemon (Toyjet) created a decent looking wing after numerous changes. The early wings worked but perhaps didn't look as appealing. Not sure if he is still doing the toyjet wings but his website is still up. My cabin heat setup works perfect too. Its way too simple and cheap for you to try something else. It uses the existing heater ducts with a bullet intercooler on each duct. Simple and works great and works off the existing heating controls. I know renegade stuff works. They are awesome and I used them on everything except the rear radiator. They are a class act and I even visited them in Las Vegas. Class Act period. I just didn't want to cut up the front of my car. Just throwing this out there again.
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Not sure what I am thinking knowing that I am done buying toys but I decided to tinker again even after having a perfectly running 89 911 ls1. I jumped into this 80 sc with slant nose conversion Stroker 383 with a purpose built CMS 915 Tranny 460HP/450Torque race car to turn it into a more street comfortable machine. Any thoughts? New thread?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1551015231.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1551015231.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1551015231.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1551015231.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1551015231.jpg |
That will be a very nice street machine. I like it!!!
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Hi,,
Nice looking car, Are those steel flares? What was done to the transmission? What is the rpm at 60 miles/hr? Any creature comforts in the car? heat....etc? |
Steel flares and fenders. No creature comforts yet. It was a track car. The tranny 915 tranny was purpose built at California motor sports and I am waiting for the paperwork on it.
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Quote:
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915:
CMS Invoice Date 3/29/2011 915 V8 mid engine 1 basic rebuild labor: includes teardown, inspection, cleaning, re-assembly 1 915/930 4 point main shaft bearing 1 915 pinion shaft 4 point thrust bearing 2 diff thrust bearing 1 915 1st gear synchro ring 1 915 2nd gear synchro ring 11 3 901 1st-5th & 915 3rd-5th synchro ring 1 30x1.5 Shoulder Nut (input shaft) 1 915 lock nut, pinion shaft 1 trans hardware 1 Shop Supplies 25 1 Sealant 5 1 915 gasket set free gasket set promotion - 1 915/930 1st/2nd shift sleeve 1 915/930 3rd/4th shift sleeve 29 1 915 1st gear dog ring (asymmetrical) 1 915 3rd gear dog ring 19 1 repair bell housing bore 1 reverse light switch 1 915/930 Pinion Shaft Cyl. Roller Bearing in bell housing, rear 1 915 reverse "H" gear, good used CMS Invoice Date 3/29/2011 Optional upgrades: 1 OSG LSD Diff setup labor (if LSD is added) 1 tall 4th gear 0.86 1 tall 5th gear 0.68 1 CMS billet bearing plate 1 CMS billet side plate 1 119 Setrab oil cooler, 6x19 row, with electric fan (cooler size 5 3/4 H x 8 1/4 W x 19 rows) 1 Peterson 600 series billet oil filter W ITHOUT TEMP PORT, 153.30 153.30T 1 CMS internal spray bar 495.00 495.00T 1 Tilton transmission oil pump 228.00 228.00T 2 AN adapter, 3/8, -8, male 0.00 0.00T 1 Cooler Fitting -8 0.00 0.00T 1 Cooler Fitting -6 1 915/930 pinion setup shim .15 9.16 9.16T 1 915/930 pinion setup shim .20 9.88 9.88T |
Please start a new thread for this car. I enjoyed your ls1 thread immensely and would love to follow this one as well
Tony |
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