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shh-the robot is sleeping
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Notheast PA
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How stable are 997 or 991 GT3 6sp prices?

My wife is looking for a fun Porsche with working AC, power steering, ABS, airbags, and a “softer more luxurious” interior than my ‘88.

I would rather spend more money on a collectible p-car than less money on a car that will depreciate $10k per year. This leads me to a low production 6sp GT. I am open to other manufactures.

What is the collective wisdom on the price stability of these cars over the next 5 years?

I think it would be great to drive and enjoy a car - not necessarily a Porsche- for a few years and sell it with maybe a little loss.

I say 5 years because she will likely want something newer again my then... I know opposites attract.

BTW she has been an incredible wife and stay at home mother for the past 20 years and deserves every bit of it and more!
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Last edited by da Vinci Dan; 06-27-2018 at 08:46 AM..
Old 06-27-2018, 08:41 AM
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Dave W
 
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Well.... I don't think of a GT3 as "softer more luxurious". It's a firm ride.

With that said, my opinion: most of the modern cars will depreciate a bunch. They are not limited production vehicles, and they are not hard to find or buy.
Maybe a 996 Turbo is what you should look for. They are out there, and a nice one can be bought for $50k or less, and certainly won't depreciate 10k a year like a new car.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:01 AM
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shh-the robot is sleeping
 
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To clarify, she does not mind a firm ride. Itís the old interior with no power steering she dislikes as well as the lack of safety and convenience features.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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Former Options Trader !!!
 
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Having been a derivatives trader for decades and then in the Porsche business for 10 years I look at the markets in these cars from a similar aspect to the one you're considering.

I have owned several dozen 911's and typically they've been the odd ball models... Speedsters, RSA, lower production models for the reason you're talking about.

My suggestion would be to consider a 997.2 or even a 996 turbo or 996 C4S. My opinion is those cars have reached the point on their decay curve where they're reasonable holders of value. I am of the opinion that none of these cars is a good investment, especially if you drive them. Sure, people make money on them and if you owned one 5 or 6 years ago and held it you did well, but thats pretty rare.

The GT cars are in a market of their own. They are reasonably good holders of value when compared to the run of the mill 991.1 or 991.2 they have a built in scarcity because of the production numbers. Again, they're not a good investment, but... if you dont factor in the cost to carry vs. either the risk free rate or the alternative investment rate, the GT cars will come out ahead of any run of the mill 911. My thought is this... I'll trade away the investment opportunity (profit on the risk free rate or the market rate of return) for the fun factor of having the car.

Personally the 991 does not really do it for me, I'd rather own a 997.2.
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Last edited by trader220; 06-27-2018 at 11:30 AM..
Old 06-27-2018, 09:20 AM
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FYI, a 997 GT3 is terrible for around town driving.

Owning both, I can tell you with absolute certainty that an '88 Carrera is easier to drive around town. Maybe not as "comfortable" given the lack of creature comforts compared to a 997, but an easier drive. The clutch and steering on the GT3 is not suited for a daily.

As for car rec's, realistically all manners of Porsche are probably going to see relatively strong pull back given the recent run ups, with the sole exception of:
  • super collectibles (not relevant)
  • 1999 C2 Convertible triptronic (can't go any lower)

The 997 Gt3's saw a huge run given the initial form of the 991.1 GT3's and are going to get hurt moving forward as both see negative pressure on pricing. I'd guess the 991.1 will move about $40k over the next 5 years, followed by 997.1 GT3 around $25k and 997.2 with the best staying power around $15k (landing them around $85k, $75k and $90k respectively).

If you want the best value today, find a tracked 996 GT3 for around $60k; that should hold value best (but wins the award for worst interior by a long shot, so may be a no-go for the wifey).
Old 06-27-2018, 11:32 AM
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gearhead
 
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I’m gonna agree with the others. Look for a depreciated 997 C2 over a GT3. While GT3s are stable and even considered collectible by many they are raw and imo cost of entry too high of you aren’t tracking the car. Get a $40-50k Carrera over spending twice that on a GT3.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:39 AM
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There is a 997.1 S coupe on the for sale board right now for low $30's. I think thats very good value.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:08 PM
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hey, if you want a GT3 don't let any of us talk you out of it.
any excuse is a good one for a gt3!!!
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:13 PM
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shh-the robot is sleeping
 
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Very helpful. Please keep the comments coming.

Some more info due to comments:

She actually loves the way our friendís 2011 GT3 drives and sounds.

She does not work or commute to a job and has a daily driver mom car - XC90. The car would be driven to the gym, lunches with friends and to the wine store primarily. This would only be when the weather is nice. Otherwise it will be lovingly garaged.

The limited use in only nice conditions is what allows me to consider such an example. Realistically, it would only be driven 3-4K per year tops.

We both are not fans of the 996, mostly for cosmetic reasons - So shallow, I know.

Mehoff - I appreciate your value projections. Regarding the 997.2 having the best staying power, were you referring to the GT3? Also, as we indeed think alike, are there other marques you would consider?
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:21 PM
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You can buy a nice 997.2 coupe for mid $50's or even better. Its not going to drop $25k over the next 5 years.

Why would you buy a GT3 to go to the gym or go buy wine? Buy a used Bentley Continental Coupe, you'll get a whole lot more curb appeal and they're more suited to going to the gym, or the State Store, you can pick up your friends in it and have lunch. You can buy a mid 2000's one for cheap and they're starting to reach the bottom of their price decay curve. Maybe a Maserati Quattroporte, again lots of curb appeal, great sound and you can buy one that's a couple years old for peanuts.

Why not a 2016 Cayman GT4 or a 2016 Boxster Spyder ? I find those two to be the most entertaining modern Porsches. You can buy a CPO one and take the warranty risk off the board.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan View Post
Very helpful. Please keep the comments coming.

Some more info due to comments:

She actually loves the way our friendís 2011 GT3 drives and sounds.

She does not work or commute to a job and has a daily driver mom car - XC90. The car would be driven to the gym, lunches with friends and to the wine store primarily. This would only be when the weather is nice. Otherwise it will be lovingly garaged.

The limited use in only nice conditions is what allows me to consider such an example. Realistically, it would only be driven 3-4K per year tops.

We both are not fans of the 996, mostly for cosmetic reasons - So shallow, I know.

Mehoff - I appreciate your value projections. Regarding the 997.2 having the best staying power, were you referring to the GT3? Also, as we indeed think alike, are there other marques you would consider?
Yep, talking 997.2 GT3's. Best of the bunch in my opinion.

As for other marquee's, based on your description of use and (honestly) the user, I wouldn't be looking at Porsche. The best bang for the buck out there today for a gym-cruiser is the 2015 California. These things got killed when the new engine came out in 2016 and frankly, I like the look of the '15 better anyway. Ignore the high lists, they're trading at a around $130k with fully documented maintenance. FYI, the latter point is important. While the California is probably better value on purchase, it is still a Ferrari and the maintenance is stupid costly.

Note: I love my current stable of 911's, but based on Porsche's selling practices with the latest limited production models I'll never buy a late model one again. They lost my business for good....so take that for what it's worth. Only Porsche race cars and pre-1989 for me.
Old 06-27-2018, 01:02 PM
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997 GT3 all the way. Can't beat a NA Mezger - plus they production numbers were relatively low. They are going to hold their current values. Probably go up in the next 5 years. You might also want to look at the 997 Turbos 6spd coupes...good ones with under 40k miles start in the $70s and go up from there. Can't go wrong with either IMO.
Old 06-27-2018, 01:39 PM
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shh-the robot is sleeping
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
You can buy a nice 997.2 coupe for mid $50's or even better. Its not going to drop $25k over the next 5 years.

Why would you buy a GT3 to go to the gym or go buy wine? Buy a used Bentley Continental Coupe, you'll get a whole lot more curb appeal and they're more suited to going to the gym, or the State Store, you can pick up your friends in it and have lunch. You can buy a mid 2000's one for cheap and they're starting to reach the bottom of their price decay curve. Maybe a Maserati Quattroporte, again lots of curb appeal, great sound and you can buy one that's a couple years old for peanuts.

Why not a 2016 Cayman GT4 or a 2016 Boxster Spyder ? I find those two to be the most entertaining modern Porsches. You can buy a CPO one and take the warranty risk off the board.
Why a GT3? Because she is cool and loves fast cars. Back in the 90ís she raced motorcyles. She willingly gave that up when pregnant with our first...

Why not a Caymen or Boxster? Original premis is that I am looking for something that will not bleed depreciation as it sits for most of its life in the garage. We have the money but I am never comfortable feeling like i am wasting it unnecessarily.

The other cars, while having curb appeal also come with more of a snooty factor and less of an enthusiast vibe.
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:45 PM
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gearhead
 
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You say she likes the way the GT3 drives. Has she driven it or just been a passenger. There’s a difference, imo. I wouldn’t want to drive one to coffee and the gym. Too much work. The argument for the Carrera is it’s just more comfortable. You want a nice car for her to drive? Get a 997.2 Carrera GTS. And it’s a Pdk. To me that’s better for this application. I was a Pdk hater at first. But I got converted.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.caranddriver.com/amp/reviews/2011-porsche-911-carrera-gts-coupe-test-review

My guess is it will depreciate a similar amount to a gt3 over the same period. They are awesome cars.
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:04 PM
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I’ll bite.
You don’t really need our opinion. You’re a big boy.
You’re here to brag/gloat/etc about your wife and your ability to buy a 3rd car at high prices that she’s going to drive to lunch with friends and the gym. Come on guys - why are you all Feeding this guys ego.
Ok. You got your moment of fame (based on my response), now move on.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
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Iíll bite.
You donít really need our opinion. Youíre a big boy.
Youíre here to brag/gloat/etc about your wife and your ability to buy a 3rd car at high prices that sheís going to drive to lunch with friends and the gym. Come on guys - why are you all Feeding this guys ego.
Ok. You got your moment of fame (based on my response), now move on.
Littleoldchooch
Old 06-27-2018, 03:38 PM
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How about a first generation boxster spyder?
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:56 PM
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gearhead
 
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If you gotta have one, here you go.
2010 GT3 in Atlas Grey - 997.2 with 12.8k miles, no track mint example
Old 06-27-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader220 View Post

My suggestion would be to consider a 997.2 ... My opinion is those cars have reached the point on their decay curve where they're reasonable holders of value. I am of the opinion that none of these cars is a good investment, especially if you drive them. Sure, people make money on them and if you owned one 5 or 6 years ago and held it you did well, but thats pretty rare.
Excellent advice here, if you are able to find a 997.2, 6 speed manual with SPASM even better.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:19 PM
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997.2

I think a 997.2 (no IMS issues) is a solid bet to hold its value well, and itís a better all around ĒcomfortableĒ driver than the hard core GT3.

If you need a hard core performance car, any 6 speed manual GT3 - 996/997.1, or especially the 997.2, will be a solid bet to hold their value.

Due to the years the 997.2 series were produced (economic mess), the 997.2 series were actually a somewhat limited production 911.

My advice is to stay with a 6 speed manual as well. I think they will maintain their value better as more and more cars are made only with automatic transmissions and smaller displacement turbo engines.
Old 06-27-2018, 08:26 PM
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