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Something tells me it was more than that spot of corrosion which the seller shows.

We don't have both sides so it's a moot point.
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Old 09-07-2018, 05:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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I believe facts are best used.

1. The car was advertised as “rust free body” and documented communications from the dealer states “rust free car”. With that we’ve established they represented it as having no rust. That is not debateable.

2. The PPI did not note rust nor holes in the body. There is a documented communication from management at the PPI company
apologizing for their short coming with regards to the PPI. Thus it cannot be debated that the buyer was unaware of the rust.

3. The car currently sits with a reputable Porsche restoration company who has completed an assessment that is quite eye opening. Their assessments and detailed documentation is easily accepted by industry experts.

4. No one is trying to slander or extort anyone. The elements of those offenses are not met here. This is a case of misrepresentation and the dealer failing to take care of the customer. Had the dealer accepted the request to return the car this would not be taking place. They were provided with an opportunity to mitigate the issue and declined. If they had offered it would have been done. This cannot be debated. Money was requested to address the rust issues. That’s not extortion. It’s called a request for the dealer to address the extreme rust which was misrepresented.

5. This is simple, you say no rust in documentation and there is so much rust that it has caused massive amounts of damage to the car. This is all documented.

I’d say it’s in the dealers best interest to address the issue with the buyer and work it out in private. Fixing issues breeds positive reputations. Arguing with emotion and false statements does nothing positive for anyone.
Old 09-08-2018, 06:40 AM
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Wow – got a lot of response out of my first post to Pelican – @trader220, you are right it was my first post; I just happened to see the OP’s post when doing a search because of my friend’s situation and thought helpful to issue a warning.

@specialtyoneinc, yes, that is the listing and the car. It says “rust-free body…” which clearly isn’t the case.

My friend did get a PPI done by a local indy; the PPI didn't include rust in the summary and the PPI company sent an email apologizing for their short comings in their report and failure to note any holes in the body.

Bottom line – caveat emptor
Old 09-08-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mcartler View Post
Wow – got a lot of response out of my first post to Pelican – @trader220, you are right it was my first post; I just happened to see the OP’s post when doing a search because of my friend’s situation and thought helpful to issue a warning.

@specialtyoneinc, yes, that is the listing and the car. It says “rust-free body…” which clearly isn’t the case.

My friend did get a PPI done by a local indy; the PPI didn't include rust in the summary and the PPI company sent an email apologizing for their short comings in their report and failure to note any holes in the body.

Bottom line – caveat emptor
Now we’re hearing two different stories regarding the PPI. If the PPI didn’t catch all of this rust, or any of it, and then they sent an email apologizing for it, they are effectively admitting their role in this mess. The buyer should be demanding money back from the PPI shop as well, they f¥cked up big time, and are liable for that lapse. Did your friend pay for the PPI with a CC? If so, they should file a dispute and get their money back. The email they sent to the buyer apologizing for the sh|t work they do PPI’ing a car is all the CC company needs to see to pull that money back from the shop and credit it back to the buyer. While it’s not 10k, it’s at least something.
Old 09-08-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JMS935 View Post
Now we’re hearing two different stories regarding the PPI. If the PPI didn’t catch all of this rust, or any of it, and then they sent an email apologizing for it, they are effectively admitting their role in this mess. The buyer should be demanding money back from the PPI shop as well, they f¥cked up big time, and are liable for that lapse. Did your friend pay for the PPI with a CC? If so, they should file a dispute and get their money back. The email they sent to the buyer apologizing for the sh|t work they do PPI’ing a car is all the CC company needs to see to pull that money back from the shop and credit it back to the buyer. While it’s not 10k, it’s at least something.

@JMS935 - Already addressed the PPI. This is an issue of representing the car as “rust free” and the. Upon receiving it the car was indeed severely rusted. It’s really that cut and dry.

Facts exist and support the claim of misrepresentation. Documentation has been reviewed and based on the totality of the circumstances it is clear that more likely than not the dealer intentionally misrepresented the vehicle. They’ve been asked to remedy the situation however have yet to engage in a reasonable solution. Hopefully they will look at things objectively and from a fact based perspective and make the ethical decision to remedy the situation.
Old 09-08-2018, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEA18 View Post
I believe facts are best used.

1. The car was advertised as “rust free body” and documented communications from the dealer states “rust free car”. With that we’ve established they represented it as having no rust. That is not debateable.

2. The PPI did not note rust nor holes in the body. There is a documented communication from management at the PPI company
apologizing for their short coming with regards to the PPI. Thus it cannot be debated that the buyer was unaware of the rust.

Your beef is with the PPI company

3. The car currently sits with a reputable Porsche restoration company who has completed an assessment that is quite eye opening. Their assessments and detailed documentation is easily accepted by industry experts.

They want to make the car perfect, you bought a used car. I can appreciate their work but this is about just repairing some rust

4. No one is trying to slander or extort anyone. The elements of those offenses are not met here. This is a case of misrepresentation and the dealer failing to take care of the customer. Had the dealer accepted the request to return the car this would not be taking place. They were provided with an opportunity to mitigate the issue and declined. If they had offered it would have been done. This cannot be debated. Money was requested to address the rust issues. That’s not extortion. It’s called a request for the dealer to address the extreme rust which was misrepresented.

They're foolish for not taking it back but as reported in other threads that's their MO


5. This is simple, you say no rust in documentation and there is so much rust that it has caused massive amounts of damage to the car. This is all documented.

I’d say it’s in the dealers best interest to address the issue with the buyer and work it out in private. Fixing issues breeds positive reputations. Arguing with emotion and false statements does nothing positive for anyone.

I am sympathetic to your situation and I have no respect for this particular dealership given their history.... but....again there are three sides to every story... you've given yours, they showed theirs, somewhere there is the real story.

Another brand new poster on Pelican huh?

I don't like to see folks get taken by unethical businesses, sorry to see what appears to have happened here.

RMC why not take the car back?
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
Another brand new poster on Pelican huh?
This one sounds like the lawyer "friend".

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Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
RMC why not take the car back?
I recall reading RMC , as claimed, did offer to take it back. Probably before the "reputable Porsche restoration company" did their "rust inspection" which punched a few holes into the car. Too late for that now.

The buyer wants money instead.

That's the extortion part.
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Last edited by pmax; 09-08-2018 at 10:15 AM..
Old 09-08-2018, 10:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pmax View Post
This one sounds like the lawyer "friend".



I recall reading RMC , as claimed, did offer to take it back. Probably before the "reputable Porsche restoration company" did their "rust inspection" which punched a few holes into the car. Too late for that now.

The buyer wants money instead.

That's the extortion part.
Sounds more like the "friend" is trying to sound like a lawyer.

I must have missed the mention of RMC offereing to taking the car back.

Looks simple to me. RMC does the right thing and takes the car back. The PPI company pays the expenses and refunds the cost of the PPI problem solved.
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Wrecked 1987 Targa Guards Red, 2003 Ducati ST4S
Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 93 RSA, other 964 coupes, 89 911 Turbo Ruf mods, 90 e30 M3, 07 BMW R1200S STOLEN 94 Speedster

Last edited by trader220; 09-08-2018 at 11:12 AM..
Old 09-08-2018, 11:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
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Wow this is quite a mess. I was looking for a local PPI suggestions...

Also upset to hear that RMC seems to have a handful of bad situations. With the volume of cars, I’m surprised not see more good or bad posts.
Old 09-08-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aliimam View Post
Wow this is quite a mess. I was looking for a local PPI suggestions...
Yeah, I was going to say don't use THAT PPI mechanic.

Quote:
Also upset to hear that RMC seems to have a handful of bad situations. With the volume of cars, I’m surprised not see more good or bad posts.
Used car dealers, enough said. Go see the car yourself is the best advice.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
Sounds more like the "friend" is trying to sound like a lawyer.

I must have missed the mention of RMC offereing to taking the car back.

Looks simple to me. RMC does the right thing and takes the car back. The PPI company pays the expenses and refunds the cost of the PPI problem solved.
All the buyer wanted was for them to take the car back and refund the money. That was the request presented to them the day the car was received and is still the desired outcome. They’ve refused.
Old 09-09-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
Something tells me it was more than that spot of corrosion which the seller shows.

We don't have both sides so it's a moot point.
What he said.

With that being said I know one of the individuals that works at RMC personally and he is a very stand up guy and very transparent. As far as the individual that was mention on this particular sale, I don't know them or ever had any contact with them. I was told the RMC story directly because I asked about it from my contact. I am choosing not to share the details of that conversation because I don't want to further mudding the water that is already turned up. All I can say it sounds like a lot of he said, he said. I think RMC has a vast inventory and they have lot of special cars that come through their inventory. If you are a buyer I wouldn't rule them out if you are looking for a special vehicle. Same rule of thumb applies to every seller/dealer I do a PPI, and put eyes on the vehicle before I sign any checks over. I know a PPI was done, but got to see that thing in person. All of us have difference perception of what we can and can't tolerate. That's not saying I have not roll the dice on something sight unseen before. I am not immune to this. But, I have lived and learned. If the vehicle can't be held with a deposit until I can see it or someone from my inner circle can put eyes on it give a shake down I pass. Not worth the risk to me anyone more.
Side Bar*
One thing I have had friends do that buy a lot of cars that may help out anyone in future if you can physical go or get anyone there. Put a deposit down and them have the seller FaceTime or skype with you and go over the entire vehicle for 30 minutes. Have them show you all the places you want to see, put it on the lift all that jazz you get the idea. If the seller is unwilling to do this after you place your deposit pull it and move on. Red flag right there. Ok I am off the soap box.
Old 09-10-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike964_61 View Post
What he said.

With that being said I know one of the individuals that works at RMC personally and he is a very stand up guy and very transparent. As far as the individual that was mention on this particular sale, I don't know them or ever had any contact with them. I was told the RMC story directly because I asked about it from my contact. I am choosing not to share the details of that conversation because I don't want to further mudding the water that is already turned up. All I can say it sounds like a lot of he said, he said. I think RMC has a vast inventory and they have lot of special cars that come through their inventory. If you are a buyer I wouldn't rule them out if you are looking for a special vehicle. Same rule of thumb applies to every seller/dealer I do a PPI, and put eyes on the vehicle before I sign any checks over. I know a PPI was done, but got to see that thing in person. All of us have difference perception of what we can and can't tolerate. That's not saying I have not roll the dice on something sight unseen before. I am not immune to this. But, I have lived and learned. If the vehicle can't be held with a deposit until I can see it or someone from my inner circle can put eyes on it give a shake down I pass. Not worth the risk to me anyone more.
Side Bar*
One thing I have had friends do that buy a lot of cars that may help out anyone in future if you can physical go or get anyone there. Put a deposit down and them have the seller FaceTime or skype with you and go over the entire vehicle for 30 minutes. Have them show you all the places you want to see, put it on the lift all that jazz you get the idea. If the seller is unwilling to do this after you place your deposit pull it and move on. Red flag right there. Ok I am off the soap box.
Rule #1: BUY THE SELLER

My take away in this whole debacle is that the dealer stated "Rust Free" in the original classified ad and misrepresented the vehicle condition prior to the PPI. After the rust issue came up in the PPI, it seems like it was down played into not being a big deal. The buyer rolled the dice and bought the vehicle knowing about a rust issue and when he received the car he quickly realized it was way more serious than was represented. Then the buyer asked for the dealer to take the car back, but was told to pound sand. The rest is a little blurry...

At the end of the day the buyer is going to lose one way or another since he's stuck with rusty SC or will have to prove in court that the dealer/PPI knew about the severity of rust before the car was shipped to him. Both are costly.

Not a good situation for both parties. Hope they can come to a resolution.
Old 09-10-2018, 09:34 AM
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Rule #1: BUY THE SELLER

My take away in this whole debacle is that the dealer stated "Rust Free" in the original classified ad and misrepresented the vehicle condition prior to the PPI. After the rust issue came up in the PPI, it seems like it was down played into not being a big deal. The buyer rolled the dice and bought the vehicle knowing about a rust issue and when he received the car he quickly realized it was way more serious than was represented. Then the buyer asked for the dealer to take the car back, but was told to pound sand. The rest is a little blurry...

At the end of the day the buyer is going to lose one way or another since he's stuck with rusty SC or will have to prove in court that the dealer/PPI knew about the severity of rust before the car was shipped to him. Both are costly.

Not a good situation for both parties. Hope they can come to a resolution.
Dealer advertised and sold it as a “rust free body” car.

The PPI did not include any references to rust on the body and the inspection company manager, upon being contacted and made aware of the issues, apologized in a documented communication and refunded the money immediately.

Dealer misrepresented and unfortunately refused to take the car back. Hopefully they will correct the issue. Based on the documentation it doesn’t appear it would be much of a court case.
Old 09-10-2018, 11:45 AM
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Dealer advertised and sold it as a “rust free body” car.

The PPI did not include any references to rust on the body and the inspection company manager, upon being contacted and made aware of the issues, apologized in a documented communication and refunded the money immediately.

Dealer misrepresented and unfortunately refused to take the car back. Hopefully they will correct the issue. Based on the documentation it doesn’t appear it would be much of a court case.
The PPI shop is most likely liable for more than just their PPI service charge refund since the rust was so bad and easily noticed. Unless that is, that it covers the entire repair of the rust damage, which it obviously doesn’t. I realize your friend believes that their entire claim is against the dealer, but it’s not, the PPI shop isn’t even close to being off the hook. Unless they got your buddy to sign a settlement agreement in exchange for the refund they provided, but if not, they are not only still on the hook, but actually more on the hook with that admission of guilt. And with their admission of guilt, they should be digging in their pocket to help remedy this, and I mean beyond the cost of the PPI.

I think the happy medium...shy of an expensive lawsuit...is for everyone to accept some loss with this and move on from it. See if you can get a bit of money from both the dealer and the PPI shop in exchange for settlement agreements so it finalizes the matter. Naturally they’re not going to cover the full repair bill, but if you can get something from both of them, and the buyer also takes a loss and contributes some to the rust repair bill as well, that’s probably the best hope of settling this pre-lawsuit. Assuming a lawsuit is coming if not. If all 3 of the parties contribute to make the proper rust repairs, then that should resolve the matter without the need for a lawsuit.
Old 09-10-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LEA18 View Post
Dealer advertised and sold it as a “rust free body” car.

The PPI did not include any references to rust on the body and the inspection company manager, upon being contacted and made aware of the issues, apologized in a documented communication and refunded the money immediately.

Dealer misrepresented and unfortunately refused to take the car back. Hopefully they will correct the issue. Based on the documentation it doesn’t appear it would be much of a court case.
Was the PPI shop recommended by the dealer? Allot of dealers are in bed with certain local shops is why I ask.
Old 09-10-2018, 05:11 PM
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