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Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
^^^ Some people forget cars are for driving enjoyment. Their loss.

. . .
Yep, and they also seem to forget that these are simply machines; not mermaids, unicorns or the cure for cancer.
Old 10-02-2018, 09:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #241 (permalink)
gearhead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Yep, and they also seem to forget that these are simply machines; not mermaids, unicorns or the cure for cancer.
Not last weekend they didn't. They we're driving them all. The rarest of the rare and tens of millions of dollars all out there nixing it up. Ferry would have been proud.
Old 10-03-2018, 04:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #242 (permalink)
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^^^

I'm still jealous about the whole sausage fest deal - no need to rub it in, MountainMan!
Old 10-03-2018, 06:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #243 (permalink)
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I got to help work on an RS Spyder gearbox. I wasn't anything more than a tool holder, but that shyte gave me wood.
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Old 10-03-2018, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #244 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaspassin View Post
It makes me a bit sad when I hear a member say they are afraid to drive their car due to a percieved monetary value. .
The end game for this line of thinking is a nice low miles car on BAT.
Sucker spends 20 decades storing a unicorn for the next guy.
You see it on BAT every single day. What a total waste of time and money.

Then again, maybe storing a trophy is the source of the joy, not driving it ?
Reminds me of what I wrote in 2015:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
I recently tried out autocross (AX). It was a really fun experience, a nice way to bond with the car, and an opportunity to push the car to its limits. This was the first time I ever had my tires screeching. I felt what it was like to have the rear end slip in a tight turn, and to correct oversteer while NOT driving in the snow! I also experienced understeer from hard turning, and even experimented with blipping the brakes right before a turn to shift the weight forward to give front wheels more grip. The skid pad understeer was striking, b/c I would never reach to that plowing limit in regular driving. When the instructor told me to give more throttle, while already understeering, it was very counter-intuitive (at least, initially) In real world driving, I would NEVER give more throttle when already understeering. The only way I can see such understeer happening in real life is if you grossly miscalculated a turn.

This experience was a stark contrast to street driving, including "spirited" driving. Obviously, I would never drive like this on the streets. I'm not even sure it's possible if I wanted to, since there just aren't many roads that are carved like a tight AX course. On the drive home, it got me thinking. I've read a lot about these debates and distinctions of various performance cars. It is very common to point out flaws and limitations of various cars. RWD vs FWD. Rear engine vs front engine. Types of tires. Cars that are too heavy and not nimble. Cars that are only good for going in a straight line. Crappy water pumper 996's vs. Hairdresser Miata vs. Vanilla ice Fox body Mustangs vs. Bloated 60s muscle cars. Myriad suspension tweaks. These differences seem like a moot point for pretty much 99% of street driving. And, for most highway commuting, you'd be just fine in just about anything. In all honesty, these arcane car performance metrics and debates now seem purely academic to me. They seem suited for marketing and media reviews and internet debates.

I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never basically never driven any car to its AX limits on the street.....except those few moments in life when I was about to total the car. I am not an aggressive driver, but what this single AX experience did was to neuter my street driving ambitions, since it simply can't compare. Or should I say, it made me not care about car debates and distinctions since almost all of them can adequately handle the duties of normal street driving. I noticed I was basically driving the speed limit on the way home from the AX day, maybe because it felt like there was little point in driving any more aggressively. The AX experience sort of ruins regular street driving...since its created a new high water mark of “fun” which simply can not be achieved on the normal roads.

I know this is going to sound like heresy, but I now might be just as happy driving a commuter car as I would a supercar for normal street driving. In fact, I might even be happier in the commuter car since I would not be frustrated at not being able to test the limits (...as a garbage truck or SUV pulls ahead of me on a long one lane road.) Sure, I would prefer a 6 cylinder since a little extra power is nice. I would prefer a manual, since knowing how to be in the right gear (downshift before a turn to maximize power) truly affects the driving on turns and hills. In fact, I'd take a manual Civic over an automatic supercar, in terms of diving engagement. But anything beyond that seems all theoretical now. I think I finally "get" the allure of the 140HP Miata and why drivers relish the fact that it allows you to push its limits on the streets.

I enjoy this incredibly active online community of information exchange.
I enjoy learning how to maintain and repair my car.
I enjoy buying new tools.
I enjoy learning how cars work.
I like cleaning my car and keeping it nice.
I like the rawness and simplicity of a 30 year old car.
I even enjoy learning the history of motorsport
I liked AX and plan to try a track DE day next.

I think what matters is that I value my car, which makes it a hobby, and not a disposable appliance.
I think what matters less is that it's a 911, or RWD, or rear engined, or 2700lbs:210HP

On the streets, to some extent, I think cars are all cars.
I'm obviously not saying they are the same, but I think the shortcomings are not that huge a deal.
It’s easy to point out negatives, but are you really using every ounce of your 911's capability anyway? Driver skills trump all performance metrics anyway.

After the AX, I celebrate anyone who takes pride in their Sentra, Corolla, Accord, Civic, WRX, 996, Boxster, V6 Camry or Accord, Chevelle, NA Miata, S2000, '66 or '76 or '86 or '96 or '06 Corvette, ‘68 or ‘08 Camaro, ‘65 or ‘85 or ‘95’' or ‘05 Mustang or their parade float '62 Caddy. (Incidentally, there were plenty of 'terrible water pumper' 996's and Boxsters thrashing out outstanding times at the AX)

The conclusion I reached was that a person should just own a car they love (for whatever reason), and leave all the technical mumbo-jumbo pissing contest for journalists and the internet flame wars.

I’m wondering if anyone else has gone through a similar sort of thought process?
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #245 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
The end game for this line of thinking is a nice low miles car on BAT.
Sucker spends 20 decades storing a unicorn for the next guy.
You see it on BAT every single day. What a total waste of time and money.
"What a total waste of time and money."

To some of us, not all fer sure, these are hobby cars to be enjoyed when we have the free time
and the extra money to. It's not for work, not part of a business. Hobbyists like us don't spend
money on these toys to make a return on them.

The point is if you consider spending one's free time and extra money on a p-car hobby a waste,
you picked the wrong hobby. Spend your hard earned dollars elsewhere, go collect wine, play golf,
buy a boat, fly a plane, you might find those activities less wasteful

Quote:
Then again, maybe storing a trophy is the source of the joy, not driving it ?
There ya go.
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Last edited by pmax; 10-03-2018 at 07:42 PM..
Old 10-03-2018, 10:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #246 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
Not Porsche related?
You can't make up your caliber of obtuseness.

1) Boomers get old, they retire, they stop driving, live in nursing homes, they die, and their Porsche nostalgia dies with them.
2) Demand drops as the Boomers age out, and fewer new people replace their evanescent Porsche demand.

LOL, a 15 year old can understand this.
You seem to think no one finds value in anything from previous generations, which is false. You also seem to think supply has no impact on demand(stated a couple times), also false. The examples you provide are not directly relevant to G-body 911's and for every example you have there more that prove the counter point. You use made up numbers and editorial articles to support your position and dismiss anything that contradicts your view.

The model T example you use is incorrect. From the 2 minutes of googling I did it looks like they generally sell for more now than they did new(adjusted for inflation).
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:07 PM
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gearhead
 
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IB93079xxxxxrubsoneout
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #248 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
IB93079xxxxxrubsoneout
Yep, 930XXXXX gets all the automotive pleasure that he needs from looking at, reading about, and polishing his ride, which is perfectly okay since it takes all types (even types like SugarWoody - the recipient of at least two "Foghorn" awards in 911 Tech, courtesy of Bob K ).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I got to help work on an RS Spyder gearbox. I wasn't anything more than a tool holder, but that shyte gave me wood.
I can't help wondering if you mounted the gearbox!
Old 10-03-2018, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #249 (permalink)
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Amusing thread. Yes, the generational gap will slowly strangle the 911 values, but remember the attrition rate takes a couple per year. It's also based on fashion and whimsy, for whatever reason they are seen as cool right now, like 23 windows buses. Most people buy on a 5-10 year timeline, anything else is too far in the future. More important than what the generation attrition rate is the economy. Are people happy buying toys? If there is a recession or worse, the toys are the first tot go. Doesn't take too many 911s on the market to crash values. If 10 SCs came onto the market next week at 'no reserve' prices, and then another the week after that, and so on, what would that do? Far more likely to drive values than the very slow decay of generational death.

For that part companies are hiring and posting profits and the low interest rates continue. 911s are now known as 'no depreciation' cars, which is enough for people to put their money in. I've spoken to several guys who weren't even born when my car was built, and they wanted to trade their wrx/golf/whatever-it-was for a 911 because they were sick of putting money into a car that was still sliding down the Depreciation curve. That's probably not enough to hold demand over the long term, but as noted 356s still seem to be powering on.

And don't forget the mismatch of production numbers to generational size, or what happens if some of the other generations from other countries decide to start buying? Point is predicting the future is a mugs game. Near term it seems safe enough that the main risk is an engine rebuild if you're about to buy, rather than drop in values. Long term nobody knows what will happen. Any two door sports car seems to be pretty safe as they are the top of the tree desirability wise. The 911 is high on the tree because it is still in production, there are lots of aftermarket parts available, they have racing provenance and are damn gorgeous to look at. The stablemates - 924,928,944,968 struggle along in comparison - less racing, less parts, less good looking, out of production.

The biggest risk of all is the regret risk, because you can't bail out of that one. It's a tough tight rope to walk, the regret of not living now vs doing something that runs you out of money at retirement. That's for each individual person to evaluate.
G-body cars are still pretty reasonable value when a loaded new pickup truck will set you back more. Ferraris are the nutcase values of th auto world, with a shocking cost per mile rate and low usability across the range.

I agree to go long 993 - buy a nice one in manual and don't let go. Their day in the sun is yet to come.
Old 10-07-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Coastr View Post
wanted to trade their wrx/golf/whatever-it-was for a 911 because they were sick of putting money into a car that was still sliding down the Depreciation curve.

I agree to go long 993 - buy a nice one in manual and don't let go. Their day in the sun is yet to come.
Weird. You should not be putting much money into a car that is still depreciating notably. It's too new. They are probably wasting money on stupid sheeper mods. By year 10, the depreciation is minimal, and then you start to invest in maintenance. You rarely get hit by both.

993 has been a very expensive car for a long time. Not sure what say in the sun you're waiting for. They have risen like crazy along with all air cooled.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
Weird. You should not be putting much money into a car that is still depreciating notably. It's too new. They are probably wasting money on stupid sheeper mods. By year 10, the depreciation is minimal, and then you start to invest in maintenance. You rarely get hit by both.

993 has been a very expensive car for a long time. Not sure what say in the sun you're waiting for. They have risen like crazy along with all air cooled.
Although true that the 993 has been "a very expensive car for a long time", for some reason, unlike all the gbodies, the 993 took a tumble in valuation in 2016, and have flat-lined for 2 years now. ALL the g body cars have risen sharply every quarter in that same 2 year period. I believe the 993s peaked too fast, and are now in a correction period. In 2 years, the 993 WILL explode again, and top the values of all 911 air cooled models.
Old 10-07-2018, 08:14 PM
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I agree that the refinements in styling and interior function will someday make the 993 the most desirable air cooled version to own.
It's the only Turbo I would trade into.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Coastr View Post


The biggest risk of all is the regret risk, because you can't bail out of that one..
^^^^ SPOT ON COMMENT^^^^

Wonder why someone has a car for 20+ years with no/ low mileage?.... because they have other fun cars to drive. But the real reason is because they can.

Last edited by speedster911; 10-08-2018 at 10:01 AM..
Old 10-08-2018, 07:09 AM
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In 2 years, the 993 WILL explode again, and top the values of all 911 air cooled models.
Never, nice try.
Old 10-08-2018, 06:18 PM
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I would trade my car for a 993 in a heartbeat.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by amg463 View Post
Never, nice try.
Oh really? Do you honestly think 993 values are going to stay where they are over the next 2 years?........never, nice try
Old 10-08-2018, 07:13 PM
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Welcome to the world according to sugar britches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueWhy View Post
You seem to think no one finds value in anything from previous generations, which is false. You also seem to think supply has no impact on demand(stated a couple times), also false. The examples you provide are not directly relevant to G-body 911's and for every example you have there more that prove the counter point. You use made up numbers and editorial articles to support your position and dismiss anything that contradicts your view.

The model T example you use is incorrect. From the 2 minutes of googling I did it looks like they generally sell for more now than they did new(adjusted for inflation).
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Last edited by matt930s; 10-09-2018 at 10:45 AM..
Old 10-08-2018, 07:21 PM
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https://jalopnik.com/%5Bobject%20Object%5D

the meta question is, “do memes fade out before the underlying topic?” or better yet, “when will old 911s stop handling like trucks?”
Old 10-09-2018, 01:17 AM
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993 values

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas View Post
Although true that the 993 has been "a very expensive car for a long time", for some reason, unlike all the gbodies, the 993 took a tumble in valuation in 2016, and have flat-lined for 2 years now. ALL the g body cars have risen sharply every quarter in that same 2 year period. I believe the 993s peaked too fast, and are now in a correction period. In 2 years, the 993 WILL explode again, and top the values of all 911 air cooled models.
On Rennlist an great CA trip and a 964 promo i enjoyed reading, but c'mon the 993 looks so much better its almost silly. And yes i agree owning both, the 993 is under valued at the moment not for long.

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/1101392-some-964-shots-from-angeles-crest-ride.html
Old 10-09-2018, 04:45 AM
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