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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG Allin View Post
$280k for a '72 - What does it got a G50 or something?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-porsche-911s-5/
That’s just f...ing insane.
Old 07-12-2019, 11:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #201 (permalink)
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Lots of critical feedback on the dino (high profile car) and none were pulled, yet critical and valid feedback on the 23k SC by techweenie and jms935 were pulled. What gives?
Old 07-12-2019, 02:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #202 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
Lots of critical feedback on the dino (high profile car) and none were pulled, yet critical and valid feedback on the 23k SC by techweenie and jms935 were pulled. What gives?
I’m on their naughty list. I don’t even recall what I commented on that was pulled...they’ve pulled so many of my comments. LoL
Old 07-12-2019, 02:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #203 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
What's really funny and telling about BAT was something that happened on the 1990 C4 Cab that didn't sell yesterday.

There was a discussion about changing the timing belt going on and the seller said that Victory Motors in Houston just did a full service and changed all the belts therefore he said he assumed they did the timing belt too. I posted there was no timing belt and I didn't even get the 5 clicks to make it turn yellow. Yet someone makes a fluff comment about something totally wrong the and the peanut gallery gives em 10 clicks.
This is why I quit posting over there. It’s now over run with kids and rookies contributing zip (except banality). Was probably bound to happen as the masses come in.
Old 07-12-2019, 03:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #204 (permalink)
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They should require you to bid if you want to make a comment.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #205 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
I read enough to see there are two sides that are seeing it opposite. The natural lighting without flash on all of the examples versus the vehicle being sold using artificial lighting on his photos are playing a giant factor. I don't need to read all of their opinions as I have my own eyes and brain and without influence from others it looks fine to me. I would consider myself pretty hypercritical with details as that's all I do everyday with restoration and collision repair. I am open to the fact that I am missing something but currently I just don't see what half the rooms issue is. I guess I am just used to seeing horrific examples of VIN tampering that if this is indeed tampered with they honestly did a decent job. If you stop reading and just study all of the different examples you will get confused on which one is the one in question fairly quickly
One of the top vintage ferrari historians in the world is in that thread, not just some joe smoe's opinion. And of course it would be a decent tamper job (if it has been tampered with), we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line of this weld.
Old 07-12-2019, 04:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #206 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
They should require you to bid if you want to make a comment.
Sure. But, that can be gamed. Simply look at all the commenters with bidding history but nothing that isn't a nominal amount (e.g. $100 or maybe $911 on a $100K car)
Old 07-12-2019, 04:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #207 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS935 View Post
That’s just f...ing insane.
Someone reeeaally likes the Apollo program.
Old 07-12-2019, 04:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #208 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanoak View Post
Sure. But, that can be gamed. Simply look at all the commenters with bidding history but nothing that isn't a nominal amount (e.g. $100 or maybe $911 on a $100K car)
You don’t do it without some rules. Minimum opening bid. Minimum price bumps until the final 24 hours. The pointveould be to shut people up. They’d never do it because they don’t want to shut people up. It’s part of their model.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #209 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShopCat View Post
One of the top vintage ferrari historians in the world is in that thread, not just some joe smoe's opinion. And of course it would be a decent tamper job (if it has been tampered with), we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line of this weld.
But that’s the point it would not be hard to correct the “concerns” if the owner knew or believed there to be an issue. I honestly feel without knowing jack about Ferraris that this could be a case where several top “historians” said it’s wrong and the rest are just cheerleading. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if the experts were wrong. I wonder if someone, anyone, everyone could be held liable for damages if that’s the case?
Old 07-12-2019, 06:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
You don’t do it without some rules. Minimum opening bid. Minimum price bumps until the final 24 hours. The pointveould be to shut people up. They’d never do it because they don’t want to shut people up. It’s part of their model.
Right and the info can, but not always be very helpful
Old 07-12-2019, 06:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
But that’s the point it would not be hard to correct the “concerns” if the owner knew or believed there to be an issue. I honestly feel without knowing jack about Ferraris that this could be a case where several top “historians” said it’s wrong and the rest are just cheerleading. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if the experts were wrong. I wonder if someone, anyone, everyone could be held liable for damages if that’s the case?
Proving those damages would be costly and difficult to do even if they’re wrong.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #212 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
But that’s the point it would not be hard to correct the “concerns” if the owner knew or believed there to be an issue. I honestly feel without knowing jack about Ferraris that this could be a case where several top “historians” said it’s wrong and the rest are just cheerleading. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if the experts were wrong. I wonder if someone, anyone, everyone could be held liable for damages if that’s the case?
Hard to imagine that would be worth pursuing.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #213 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
But that’s the point it would not be hard to correct the “concerns” if the owner knew or believed there to be an issue. I honestly feel without knowing jack about Ferraris that this could be a case where several top “historians” said it’s wrong and the rest are just cheerleading. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if the experts were wrong. I wonder if someone, anyone, everyone could be held liable for damages if that’s the case?
If I were spending this amount of money on a car I would certainly give more credence to experts. I don’t know jack about Ferrari’s either so wouldn’t question someone that does in a situation when money is on the line. I would hate to land in the same situation as the Seinfeld Carrera Speedster. The problem with BaT many times is bidders fall for the cheering crowd and ignore the red flags raised by others (hence the reason this thread from Bill even exists). I feel like I know Porsche’s better than the average Porsche guy and am constantly surprised by the comments from the peanut gallery and the even more gullible responders that eat that stuff up. My money is on the Ferrari expert - if there is doubt, punt on this Dino and find another.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JMS935 View Post
Proving those damages would be costly and difficult to do even if they’re wrong.
Cars average value is “x”, car only bid up to “y” mainly due the vin bashing. x-y= diminution in value.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MyFlat6 View Post
If I were spending this amount of money on a car I would certainly give more credence to experts. I don’t know jack about Ferrari’s either so wouldn’t question someone that does in a situation when money is on the line. I would hate to land in the same situation as the Seinfeld Carrera Speedster. The problem with BaT many times is bidders fall for the cheering crowd and ignore the red flags raised by others (hence the reason this thread from Bill even exists). I feel like I know Porsche’s better than the average Porsche guy and am constantly surprised by the comments from the peanut gallery and the even more gullible responders that eat that stuff up. My money is on the Ferrari expert - if there is doubt, punt on this Dino and find another.
I guess it doesn’t help that after I carefully reviewed the images of the VIN I coincidentally read two very intelligent and knowledgeable sounding ferrari guys saying the VIN is well within the large range of deviation present on these Dinos. That was enough for me to feel that this could very well be a bandwagon full of cheerleaders buttkissing the other experts. Would I have bid? No way not without knowing a hell of a lot more about it but am I convinced that this car is a fraud. NO
Old 07-12-2019, 07:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #216 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
Cars average value is “x”, car only bid up to “y” mainly due the vin bashing. x-y= diminution in value.
I totally get what you are saying here, but it doesn’t counter the fact that this will still be difficult and expensive to prove.

You do raise a really good point though - anyone thinking about listing a car for sale on the internet, including BaT, need to understand that the car will now have a traceable history forever. Frankly, I had to think long and hard about this with the sale of my car. All you have to do is google the VIN and boom you are taken to BaT with all those peanut gallery comments. Sellers (frankly, even buyers) need to think long and hard about this. This is why I like the approach Paul at AutoKennel does not provide VIN’s on his internet listings.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #217 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
Cars average value is “x”, car only bid up to “y” mainly due the vin bashing. x-y= diminution in value.
He would need to actually sell it at a loss first, and then prove that the loss was directly due to the misinformation in that auction. And since you’d be suing these so called Ferrari experts, their defense would be that they were/are right. You’d need to prove them wrong, which means you’d need an expert of your own. Any idea how much experts cost for lawsuits and trials? It’s the biggest racket going, they will bleed you dry. I don’t know the value of this car, but I’m sure the legal fees would surpass it. I haven’t experienced a lawsuit yet where the legal fees didn’t surpass the value of the lawsuit. It’s a lose-lose proposition.
Old 07-12-2019, 07:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #218 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
I guess it doesn’t help that after I carefully reviewed the images of the VIN I coincidentally read two very intelligent and knowledgeable sounding ferrari guys saying the VIN is well within the large range of deviation present on these Dinos. That was enough for me to feel that this could very well be a bandwagon full of cheerleaders buttkissing the other experts. Would I have bid? No way not without knowing a hell of a lot more about it but am I convinced that this car is a fraud. NO
I am following you.

Btw, I just remembered a situation a year or two ago on BaT where a guy was selling a 964 and I pointed out a couple photos that were clearly from a different car (while of course everyone else was cheering on the bidders) and in the end the seller admitted he had ‘mixed up’ photos from two different 964’s of the same rare color. Caveat emptor

Last edited by MyFlat6; 07-12-2019 at 08:02 PM..
Old 07-12-2019, 07:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #219 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MyFlat6 View Post
I totally get what you are saying here, but it doesn’t counter the fact that this will still be difficult and expensive to prove.

You do raise a really good point though - anyone thinking about listing a car for sale on the internet, including BaT, need to understand that the car will now have a traceable history forever. Frankly, I had to think long and hard about this with the sale of my car. All you have to do is google the VIN and boom you are taken to BaT with all those peanut gallery comments. Sellers (frankly, even buyers) need to think long and hard about this. This is why I like the approach Paul at AutoKennel does not provide VIN’s on his internet listings.
I would never want to sell a car on there with any sort of a storied past without laying it all out on the table firsthand. You risk getting eaten alive. I reserve BAT for what I feel are solid cars
Old 07-12-2019, 09:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #220 (permalink)
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