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Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
I'm currently teaching my 15 year old to drive a stick. I'm really surprised at how difficult it is for him.
My assumption is he doesn't have the concept down because he didn't grow up watching me drive a stick 100% of the time.
My dad's trucks were always a manual. So all I saw was him working the clutch and gears. I was sneaking his truck out and driving a manual at 13. My son hasn't had that visual experience to learn from.
And he's a good kid that doesn't pull any of the crap I did.
Nobody in family drove stick. But I wanted to learn since I thought it would be cool to know how to drive one. After I got my license I took a couple of lessons with an instructor and it wasn't a big deal. I only took the 2nd lesson so I could practice parking up or down hills, which to be honest still intimidates me all these years later

Old 09-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Driven97 View Post
. . .
I think a better question is if sports cars will still exist on a new level in 20 years.

Tesla are kinda hacks when it comes to building cars. However the Model 3 Performance, which is the sporty version of their cheapest sedan, has performance beyond most sports cars today, and on par with supercars from only a few years ago. Why would you need a sports car when you can get all the performance with none of the drawbacks?
. . . .
I've never driven or even ridden in one, but did recently see one hauling ass down a small airport runway - majorly impressive acceleration that would leave my modded Turbo crying out for both its mama and Jesus before bawling like a baby.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-25-2019 at 05:52 PM..
Old 09-25-2019, 05:50 PM
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This is an interesting topic. I wonder if I will be physically able or still here in 20 years so I guess I'm out. However my son just turned 21 and loves a manual. He prefers driving manual on track and is hoping one day to outdrive me in my track car. I have no doubt one day, when they become his and he has the means to keep them he will find a way to enjoy them.

There seems to be a lot of interest and big growth in private track/clubs and vintage racing is ever growing. I think the challenge the thrill and the excitement of the sports car and vintage racing will always have a place. It may be too costly for the common man or dino fuel may have to give way to E85 but I don't see it dying off that abruptly in 20 years. 40 is another story but 20 I still think there will be tracks and ways of driving these cars no matter how far technology takes us.

I'm assuming people will still be playing golf then too but technology can change all of this if we allow it to.

[QUOTE]Tesla are kinda hacks when it comes to building cars. However the Model 3 Performance, which is the sporty version of their cheapest sedan, has performance beyond most sports cars today, and on par with supercars from only a few years ago. Why would you need a sports car when you can get all the performance with none of the drawbacks?/QUOTE]

Honestly? Although the model 3 has some (and I say that lightly) feel to it unlike the Model S with hyperdrive which has none. Either can outperform some supercars but they are just plain transportation and I found numbing to drive unless I mash the pedal and that gets tiring quickly. It is about the connection and interacting with the road and even the PDK cars are amazing but I have no interest and only find it useful in my Macan for driving in traffic.
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Last edited by Cobalt; 09-26-2019 at 05:10 PM..
Old 09-26-2019, 04:59 PM
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With the growth of autonomous technology in 20-30 years it will be quite prevalent, I wouldn't be surprised if the legislative argument will be whether or not to ban the right to drive on public roads.
Old 09-26-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
With the growth of autonomous technology in 20-30 years it will be quite prevalent, I wouldn't be surprised if the legislative argument will be whether or not to ban the right to drive on public roads.
I question how well that will work in rural areas of the country.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:46 PM
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I question how well that will work in rural areas of the country.
Your betters in DC who make policy, don't care about rural people. It will be fun to watch the ban car/truck crowd reconcile the "all food you eat comes from areas that need cars/trucks" reality. They think organically grown GMO free arugula just magically shows up at Whole Foods every morning.

Last edited by Vaive; 09-27-2019 at 07:42 AM..
Old 09-27-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaive View Post
Your betters in DC who make policy, don't care about rural people. It will be fun to watch the ban car/truck crowd reconcile the "all food you eat comes from areas that need cars/trucks" reality. They think organically grown GMO free arugula just magically shows up at Whole Foods every morning.
You donít actually know any greens, do you?
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:16 AM
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Many of the key motorcycles manufacturers had fling with automatics in the 70’s. thankfully they didnt didn’t sell so well and overtaken the manuals. They barely exist in the market places today. Same with turbo’d bikes on the 80’s.

Bikers get it and so does F1 ?
Old 09-27-2019, 07:49 PM
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^^^

Bikes have sequential gearboxes that can be upshifted without using the clutch, and even without closing the throttle if a simple ignition cut-off device is linked to the shift lever (aka - much closer to an automatic box than a typical car's manual box).

And maybe I'm dumb, but I don't get the connection to turbocharged bikes from back in the day. Are you saying that car engines should not be turbocharged (unfair to make all that horsepower and torque with such a simple device? ).

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-27-2019 at 09:47 PM..
Old 09-27-2019, 09:40 PM
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My 16yo daughter passed her drivers test in and drives a manual transmission car and so do some of her friends. So it is not totally dead.

I bought a 997.2 GT3RS specifically for the manual transmission. Let me clarify that, I wanted an RS but also wanted a manual, hence the 997.2
Old 09-27-2019, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt View Post
found numbing to drive unless I mash the pedal and that gets tiring quickly. It is about the connection and interacting with the road and even the PDK cars are amazing but I have no interest and only find it useful in my Macan for driving in traffic.
Myself, and I'm sure majority of aircooled 911 owners on this forum totally agree, at least on a car as a toy.

But I have the cynical view that a typical buyer these days buys by spreadsheet. Put whatever spec is most important, sort high to low, pick the one closest to the end you want that fits the budget. Done.

Or checkbox buyers: "It has to have heated seats, apple carplay, automatic braking, and 30mpg minimum." Hyundai plays that game well, giving features over driving substance, at competitive prices, with a good warranty, and being "good enough" in all other areas. Their sales year over year show that strategy works.

And as a quick litmus test, how likely are you to buy a Mazda Miata? It's a car where the manufacturer explicitly designed it to be the best possible driver's car at the price point. As small, light, and analog as possible, a pure, classic roadster with 50:50 weight distribution, not one concession to try to hit the fastest lap time on an arbitrary track. If we were true enthusiasts all about the experience, we all should be falling over ourselves to get one. But I don't own one.
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:15 AM
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Miata is a nice ride for the $$. I don't fit well and the toe box is way too small for my feet. I don't care much about connectivity and find most don't bother as I would estimate 50% of the people I see drive and text or talk on their phone without it despite the hands free law in NJ. If these electric cars become more fun to drive . I would consider them. I gave the Tesla a shot and I had to admit the model 3 was a superior ride over the S but the technology is still too young and the driverless mode was interesting but nearly put me into the guardrail a few times. The 3 didn't require you to tug on the wheel as often but was still annoying and if I have to keep telling it I am watching why bother!
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:31 AM
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You see the Cobalt blue 996 4S for sale in the dealer section Anthony?
Old 09-30-2019, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven97 View Post
. .
And as a quick litmus test, how likely are you to buy a Mazda Miata? It's a car where the manufacturer explicitly designed it to be the best possible driver's car at the price point. As small, light, and analog as possible, a pure, classic roadster with 50:50 weight distribution, not one concession to try to hit the fastest lap time on an arbitrary track. If we were true enthusiasts all about the experience, we all should be falling over ourselves to get one. But I don't own one.
About as likely as I would be to buy a Boxster (less than zero chance). I'm way too insecure to be seen tooling (literally) around in an aerobics instructor's car (regardless of its positive driving characteristics). Plus, a machine can be as light and nimble as a ballerina, but does nothing for me if it doesn't have enough thrust and acceleration to make me think, "oooohhhhhh shhhiiiiiitttttttt" when I open the throttle.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-30-2019 at 06:56 PM..
Old 09-30-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
About as likely as I would be to buy a Boxster (less than zero chance). I'm way too insecure to be seen tooling (literally) around in an aerobics instructor's car (regardless of its positive driving characteristics). Plus, a machine can be as light and nimble as a ballerina, but does nothing for me if it doesn't have enough thrust and acceleration to make me think, "oooohhhhhh shhhiiiiiitttttttt" when I open the throttle.
The Boxster GTS with a tune and exhaust work is a very capable ride and is a great handling car. 981 cayman with tune and MCS suspension will easily do 2:06 at the glen all day long. We have seen nearly 400 BHP out of these cars tuned properly.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:59 AM
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You see the Cobalt blue 996 4S for sale in the dealer section Anthony?
No looking at another 964 if all things work out though.

Thx anyway.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Driven97 View Post
Manuals are on their way out. The day autos surpassed them on fuel economy was the day they died.

I think a better question is if sports cars will still exist on a new level in 20 years.

Tesla are kinda hacks when it comes to building cars. However the Model 3 Performance, which is the sporty version of their cheapest sedan, has performance beyond most sports cars today, and on par with supercars from only a few years ago. Why would you need a sports car when you can get all the performance with none of the drawbacks?

We're all going to be driving around in electric 7 passenger crossovers that can blow a Carrera GT out of the water for a decade or two until the driver gets removed completely.

By then owning a car that you can actually drive yourself will be comparable to owning a horse today.
Having owned my Model 3 Performance for a few months now, I am convinced that these cars are going to be detuned in coming generations. It's not just fast, it's violently fast, and without any of the lag of waiting for air and fuel to get into a combustion chamber, downshift, and selecting the proper gearing fast.

Once people get over their unfounded range anxiety, they're going to realize that EVs are superior to internal combustion engines for the majority of applications.
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Last edited by MrBonus; 10-01-2019 at 06:54 AM..
Old 10-01-2019, 06:51 AM
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Having owned my Model 3 Performance for a few months now, I am convinced that these cars are going to be detuned in coming generations. It's not just fast, it's violently fast, and without any of the lag of waiting for air and fuel to get into a combustion chamber, downshift, and selecting the proper gearing fast.

Once people get over their unfounded range anxiety, they're going to realize that EVs are superior to internal combustion engines for the majority of applications.
I have no doubt they will detune these and offer different options in the future although I have driven faster cars. They just need to engineer better road feel and maybe a sound track for us old school folk.
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:33 AM
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Manual

In time, less then 5 years, the car market or SUV/Truck market will see big changes with no all surviving
Old 10-07-2019, 06:52 PM
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Yes, stick is basically obsolete now. PDK is superior in every way.
Some people will insist they want to start their car with a hand crank, but they also died off.
Once this last generation dies off, car makers will have no reason to waste manufacturing efforts of selling 1% of their cars with a stick.

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Old 10-07-2019, 07:17 PM
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