The 2014 "water pumper" hate seems to have entirely died off.

[Matt Monson]

It’s like listening to a Trumpster say he’s a good President, against all logic and reason. You can’t convince a fanatic.

[Vaive]

I have a feeling if 993s were going for $20K and 993s were going for $50K you'd have a different opinion.

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It’s like listening to a Trumpster say he’s a good President, against all logic and reason. You can’t convince a fanatic.

When he wins again will you be OK? Your TDS is quickly approaching 11 and I'm kinda worried about you.

[NYNick]

996's, except the GT3s and Turbos, need to be modded a tad. Start with the obvious IMS, but then move quickly to the suspension, tires, intake and exhaust.. If you want to go further, mess with the interior and adding lightness. Of course, if 2nd gear pops out, fix that too.

After that, drive the piss out of it and get back to me. I'm betting no one will be complaining about being underwhelmed.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Vaive

When he wins again will you be OK? Your TDS is quickly approaching 11 and I'm kinda worried about you.

Don’t you worry your pretty little head. I’ll be just fine.

You buy a car yet?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by NYNick

996's, except the GT3s and Turbos, need to be modded a tad. Start with the obvious IMS, but then move quickly to the suspension, tires, intake and exhaust.. If you want to go further, mess with the interior and adding lightness. Of course, if 2nd gear pops out, fix that too.

After that, drive the piss out of it and get back to me. I'm betting no one will be complaining about being underwhelmed.

This reminds me of a car I had in high school, a 88 Toyota Celica. I put Fittipaldi wheels on it, lowered it with springs, changed out the exhaust, put Recaro seats in it, MOMO steering wheel and stick knob, and then yes I had a car that was a blast to drive and handled on rails.

But you take a stock air-cooled 911 and turn the key, and it's a blast to drive, you see my point?

This is the Celica pictured with the USS ADAM.

---Adam

[Tonger]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

This reminds me of a car I had in high school, a 88 Toyota Celica. I put Fittipaldi wheels on it, lowered it with springs, changed out the exhaust, put Recaro seats in it, MOMO steering wheel and stick knob, and then yes I had a car that was a blast to drive and handled on rails.

But you take a stock air-cooled 911 and turn the key, and it's a blast to drive, you see my point?

This is the Celica pictured with the USS ADAM.

---Adam

The 996 isn't any more a Celica than the 993 is a Karman Ghia.

Your driving impression of the handling of a single 996 is definitely subject to sampling error. Something as simple as a bad alignment will can have a big effect on the driving experience. There's a number of other drivers that have owned both models and feel the opposite.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/477818-996-997-handling-vs-993-a.html

The point isn't proving whose opinion is the most correct on an internet forum - it's that the diversity of options is good for the hobby.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

This reminds me of a car I had in high school, a 88 Toyota Celica. I put Fittipaldi wheels on it, lowered it with springs, changed out the exhaust, put Recaro seats in it, MOMO steering wheel and stick knob, and then yes I had a car that was a blast to drive and handled on rails.

But you take a stock air-cooled 911 and turn the key, and it's a blast to drive, you see my point?

This is the Celica pictured with the USS ADAM.

---Adam

Well, since you're an internet buddy I'll give it one last shot.

I bought an 89 Targa years ago. Like you, I've driven quite a few Porsches in my day. In fact, I bought this 89 G50 after I had owned 2 996s and 2 997s, as well as quite a few air cooled cars.

It drove like Sugar's dump truck. Heavy as a pig, slow as a mule, handled like crap. I couldn't sell that car fast enough. Besides the wind noise, I just hated it. Typical late 80's Porsche compromise to the patent leather SL crowd.

Then my son bought an 88 coupe with an ungodly amount of miles on it. (you remember his 87 994S, you saw it!) He fixed the rust, fixed the leaks, removed the A/C, removed the rear seats, replaced some bushings, fuel lines etc. Nothing major, just normal TLC.

Holy mother of god what a car! It's fast as hell, runs like the devil, very dependable and fun. I just love that car.

The stock 89 Targa felt like a POS. The massaged 88 was a blast. Point being, they're not ALL great out of the box and they all get better with tweaking.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Tonger

The 996 isn't any more a Celica than the 993 is a Karman Ghia.

Your driving impression of the handling of a single 996 is definitely subject to sampling error. Something as simple as a bad alignment will can have a big effect on the driving experience. There's a number of other drivers that have owned both models and feel the opposite.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/477818-996-997-handling-vs-993-a.html

The point isn't proving whose opinion is the most correct on an internet forum - it's that the diversity of options is good for the hobby.

You love your ultimate 993 - way to go!

I think this is more the 996 in it's "natural habitat", which is what we are talking about. The car you have pictured probably has $50,000 in mods, how does that have any bearing on what we are talking about?

And I wasn't comparing the 996 to a Celica, I was using the Celica as an example of what happens when you throw a bunch of money at an ok sports car, it becomes a much better car, which is what Nick was saying, if you spend a bunch of money on a 996 it starts to become a good car. I was talking stock 993 to stock 996.
---Adam

[911boost]

Take it PARF jackwagons, we don’t need that crap here.

Personally I’d never own a 993, except maybe a turbo. I don’t like the styling at all, but that’s just my opinion.

I’ve had a 3.2 Carrera, a 964T, a 996TT and currently have a 997.2. They each have strength and weaknesses.

[Matt Monson]

I'm telling you guys that you are wasting your keystrokes. The 996 Carrera has more power, weighs less, accelerates more quickly and has better lateral G numbers than the 993. It is a better driving car. Adam likes the 993 better, and nothing you say will change that. Facts don't sway opinions when someone has made up their mind already.

[911boost]

I like the 996 and am a fan, since I’ve owned one. Agree with you Matt, for some of it isn’t air cooled it cannot possibly be better.

[1979-930]

The best car out there is the one I can afford.
The cheaper cars are junk and the more expensive cars are too refined and lack visceral experience.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

The best car out there is the one I can afford.
The cheaper cars are junk and the more expensive cars are too refined and lack visceral experience.

Bruce Anderson always said to buy the nicest one that you can afford. It lost always pays off in the end.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Well, since you're an internet buddy I'll give it one last shot.

I bought an 89 Targa years ago. Like you, I've driven quite a few Porsches in my day. In fact, I bought this 89 G50 after I had owned 2 996s and 2 997s, as well as quite a few air cooled cars.

It drove like Sugar's dump truck. Heavy as a pig, slow as a mule, handled like crap. I couldn't sell that car fast enough. Besides the wind noise, I just hated it. Typical late 80's Porsche compromise to the patent leather SL crowd.

Then my son bought an 88 coupe with an ungodly amount of miles on it. (you remember his 87 994S, you saw it!) He fixed the rust, fixed the leaks, removed the A/C, removed the rear seats, replaced some bushings, fuel lines etc. Nothing major, just normal TLC.

Holy mother of god what a car! It's fast as hell, runs like the devil, very dependable and fun. I just love that car.

The stock 89 Targa felt like a POS. The massaged 88 was a blast. Point being, they're not ALL great out of the box and they all get better with tweaking.

This is so true. Nothing handles as badly as a clapped out, creaking, badly aligned, hacked on by POs, rarely serviced, 400lbs too heavy, and poorly setup 911. Almost a different car....it takes many hours along with $$$ to make them even 90% of factory new.

[manbridge 74]

The 996 is what I would call average IMO, especially as it gets on in years. I don’t like the Achilles heel aspect even if it only affects a small percentage of cars. I’ve seen too many disappointed guys who didn’t get to put that many miles on before failure, but keep in mind that I’m around a LOT of these...

[Rodsrsr]

The engine is garbage....There I said it.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by NYNick

996's, except the GT3s and Turbos, need to be modded a tad. Start with the obvious IMS, but then move quickly to the suspension, tires, intake and exhaust.. If you want to go further, mess with the interior and adding lightness. Of course, if 2nd gear pops out, fix that too.

After that, drive the piss out of it and get back to me. I'm betting no one will be complaining about being underwhelmed.

The turbos need a tune. Livens them right up.
Of course then you need a clutch, but it’s worth it...

[Unobtanium-inc]

A friend of mine works at Porsche and he said the joke at Porsche is that the 996 is the car the accountants built. One look at the interior and I can believe it.

---Adam

[Tonger]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

A friend of mine works at Porsche and he said the joke at Porsche is that the 996 is the car the accountants built. One look at the interior and I can believe it.



---Adam

Wow - are you for real? Like nobody’s ever heard that before and now everyone is gonna think you’re some kind of super Porsche insider?

Cmon man, maybe there’s one guy somewhere out there that hasn’t heard about the fried egg headlights and you can win the internet with that one next.