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gearhead
 
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It’s an older stat, but US is only a few % of world population using 20% of the resources. Our populace is not really willing to give up their consumptive ways and most of the rest of the world wants to emulate us. I really don’t see a scenario without mass starvation in the future. The rich will survive and the poor will die. /thread.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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The drag is if you bring people out of poverty they pollute more and if they are in poverty they do not care about pollution and the destruction of the world because they are just trying to stay alive.
But to help dispel the doom and gloom view point here is a great insight on today's world and how things are really actually pretty good for the people of this planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ&t=15s
Old 11-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Itís an older stat, but US is only a few % of world population using 20% of the resources. Our populace is not really willing to give up their consumptive ways and most of the rest of the world wants to emulate us. I really donít see a scenario without mass starvation in the future. The rich will survive and the poor will die. /thread.
It's an old stat and also an irrelevant stat. We use a lot of stuff since we are rich. That's how it works, rich countries consume a lot. Poor countries don't.

You think you'd be happier being poorer? Great go for it. Sell all your stuff (including your cars) and live in a 1 room cabin off the grid patting yourself on the back for saving Gaia.

That's what AOC and Greta are selling. And while all San Jose virtue signallers nod in agreement on Twitter, in reality nobody really wants it. It's a dead end politically. I'll believe Bernie and Lizzie believe this nonsense when they give up their campaign jet and start biking from campaign stop to campaign stop. Until then, LOLGF.
Old 11-12-2019, 11:35 AM
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gearhead
 
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Originally Posted by Vaive View Post
It's an old stat and also an irrelevant stat. We use a lot of stuff since we are rich. That's how it works, rich countries consume a lot. Poor countries don't.

You think you'd be happier being poorer? Great go for it. Sell all your stuff (including your cars) and live in a 1 room cabin off the grid patting yourself on the back for saving Gaia.

That's what AOC and Greta are selling. And while all San Jose virtue signallers nod in agreement on Twitter, in reality nobody really wants it. It's a dead end politically. I'll believe Bernie and Lizzie believe this nonsense when they give up their campaign jet and start biking from campaign stop to campaign stop. Until then, LOLGF.
Youíre an idiot, just as much as AOC is. The world is not binary. One can change their lifestyle (like converting to renewables) and not go live in a hut.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:56 AM
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I was just waiting for the "You're an idiot" line...

Now its a certified PARF thread.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:17 AM
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Some of you guys might try visiting Denmark. Happiest place on the planet and very heavily taxed.

Point being, there are alternative ways of living well.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
 
gearhead
 
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Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
Some of you guys might try visiting Denmark. Happiest place on the planet and very heavily taxed.

Point being, there are alternative ways of living well.
But how would I ever live without my monster truck? And my $1200/mo health insurance premium isnít really a tax.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
But how would I ever live without my monster truck? And my $1200/mo health insurance premium isnít really a tax.
Don't forget the privilege of wearing a giant hand cannon on yer hip, if you so choose!!! Gunz & ammo dude, gunz & ammo!!!
Old 11-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
Some of you guys might try visiting Denmark. Happiest place on the planet and very heavily taxed.

Point being, there are alternative ways of living well.
CA has a few million freeloaders I'll send them. Let's see how Effing happy they are paying for them.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Itís an older stat, but US is only a few % of world population using 20% of the resources. Our populace is not really willing to give up their consumptive ways and most of the rest of the world wants to emulate us. I really donít see a scenario without mass starvation in the future. The rich will survive and the poor will die. /thread.
Actually, a far bigger problem for developed economies is a lack of population growth, with birthrates in Western Europe, for instance, well below replacement. Populations are aging, with too many retirees and too few worker bees. This pattern is going to get much worse in the next couple of decades. It places a huge burden on an economy to pay for services for an aging population. Taxes will have to rise, or services cut in order for these economies to survive in the long term. Russia is a particularly severe example, as they not only have very low birthrates, but people are emigrating the hell out of there; Russia's population is expected to decline by 50+ million in the coming decades.

As recently as 2008, the US had a birthrate of 2.08--that's excellent, since it implies that the average woman would be replacing herself and her partner, with a little leftover for child deaths, which means a growing population. The US, at the time, was the only developed economy in the world with a birthrate of over 2.0. Unfortunately, even the US birthrate has fallen and now stands at 1.80. What happened in the meantime? Trump, and the rise of nationalism, has kept immigrants from wanting to move here, and immigrant populations have a much higher birthrate. Keeping immigrants out is like trying to keep kids from graduating high school; economies can only grow (in real terms) from either: 1. a growing work force, or 2. increases in productivity.

We don't live in a Malthusian world anymore. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Old 11-14-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mocker View Post
Actually, a far bigger problem for developed economies is a lack of population growth, with birthrates in Western Europe, for instance, well below replacement. Populations are aging, with too many retirees and too few worker bees. This pattern is going to get much worse in the next couple of decades. It places a huge burden on an economy to pay for services for an aging population. Taxes will have to rise, or services cut in order for these economies to survive in the long term. Russia is a particularly severe example, as they not only have very low birthrates, but people are emigrating the hell out of there; Russia's population is expected to decline by 50+ million in the coming decades.
I don't think you are following me. I'm talking about energy consumption and accompanying greenhouse gases. I checked after Vaive's rant, and decided not to reply but we do still consume about 23% (this is a blended average number) of goal, natural gas, and oil resources. As the world develops, do you really think they go to green technologies for their home electricity and transportation if the developed world hasn't produced them at a level that makes it cost effective? Coal will continue to be the cheapest fuel source for decades to come in absence of decent solar and wind technology widely available around the world. Even nuclear is seeing renewed interest because at least it is emissions free.

The back half of that comment assumes the above, which means global warming will continue. Ignoring any Malthusian argument, if world population stays the same and the amount of arable land goes down dramatically because of climate change, people will starve. It may not be Americans and Europeans in the short term (half a century or less) but in other parts of the world where subsistence farming is still the most common "career" it will hit hard. At home, it will also be the poor who suffer first and the most. Whether America decides to feed the starving millions or not will become a question of national will. The every man for themselves capitalists will battle with the we are all in this together and nobody gets out alive so be kind folks for the soul of our nation. I'm not optimistic who wins that battle and assume that in a 100 years or so, even here millions will be starving. In many parts of the country they are already going hungry.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:15 AM
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CA has a few million freeloaders I'll send them. Let's see how Effing happy they are paying for them.
It's a different way of life over there. People don't freeload. They contribute and support. It's difficult to explain unless you live the way they do. Different outlook altogether.

It would never fly here, that's for sure.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:17 AM
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gearhead
 
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Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
It's a different way of life over there. People don't freeload. They contribute and support. It's difficult to explain unless you live the way they do. Different outlook altogether.

It would never fly here, that's for sure.
There is a general sense of community that exists there that is wholly absent here except for if one belongs to a church. And even then it's microcosmic to small local groups of people and not societal.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:16 AM
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There is a general sense of community that exists there that is wholly absent here except for if one belongs to a church. And even then it's microcosmic to small local groups of people and not societal.
Exactly. Oh, and they're also one of the least religious countries.
That's gotta tell you something.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I don't think you are following me. I'm talking about energy consumption and accompanying greenhouse gases. I checked after Vaive's rant, and decided not to reply but we do still consume about 23% (this is a blended average number) of goal, natural gas, and oil resources. As the world develops, do you really think they go to green technologies for their home electricity and transportation if the developed world hasn't produced them at a level that makes it cost effective? Coal will continue to be the cheapest fuel source for decades to come in absence of decent solar and wind technology widely available around the world. Even nuclear is seeing renewed interest because at least it is emissions free.

The back half of that comment assumes the above, which means global warming will continue. Ignoring any Malthusian argument, if world population stays the same and the amount of arable land goes down dramatically because of climate change, people will starve. It may not be Americans and Europeans in the short term (half a century or less) but in other parts of the world where subsistence farming is still the most common "career" it will hit hard. At home, it will also be the poor who suffer first and the most. Whether America decides to feed the starving millions or not will become a question of national will. The every man for themselves capitalists will battle with the we are all in this together and nobody gets out alive so be kind folks for the soul of our nation. I'm not optimistic who wins that battle and assume that in a 100 years or so, even here millions will be starving. In many parts of the country they are already going hungry.
I guess I'm more optimistic than you are. if we go back 125 years or so, the streets in NYC were choked with horse manure. Projections were dire, as the assumption was that there would be more and more horses, and an ever-growing horse****e problem. Technology took care of it, and I believe that technology will produce similar solutions to our environmental problems. I'm old enough to remember when air pollution was a serious problem here in the US, and it was unsafe to swim in many streams and rivers. New laws and regulations made those problems virtually disappear. The climate deniers are vocal, but they're in the minority, and their numbers will continue to dwindle.

So while I'm worried about how policymakers will tackle demographic-driven economic issues, I think environmental issues are a lot easier to solve.
Old 11-14-2019, 11:39 AM
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Exactly. Oh, and they're also one of the least religious countries.
That's gotta tell you something.
Does that mean they don't murder one another, and commit the most horrendous attrocities imaginable in general, in the name of their sky fairy of choice?!?!
Old 11-14-2019, 12:11 PM
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Does that mean they don't murder one another, and commit the most horrendous attrocities imaginable in general, in the name of their sky fairy of choice?!?!
Correct. Plus, they have "Very Restricted" gun laws as defined below:

Very Restricted: category of firearm cannot be obtained by the general public. Special licenses are given to a restricted group of people like hunters, sport shooters or collectors. Self-defense is not considered a valid reason to obtain a license.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:00 PM
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Denmark has more restrictive gun laws the the USA so Denmark has less gun violence than the USA.
Mexico has more restrictive gun laws than Denmark so Mexico has less gun violence than Denmark.
Old 11-15-2019, 06:15 AM
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gearhead
 
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Originally Posted by ficke View Post
Denmark has more restrictive gun laws the the USA so Denmark has less gun violence than the USA.
Mexico has more restrictive gun laws than Denmark so Mexico has less gun violence than Denmark.
Denmark doesn't have a border with America and its drug problem. The guns are there to protect the drug trade, both of which are illegal.
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:49 AM
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Denmark has more restrictive gun laws the the USA so Denmark has less gun violence than the USA.
Mexico has more restrictive gun laws than Denmark so Mexico has less gun violence than Denmark.
-Denmark is not a transit hub for the drug trade.
-Police and security services in Denmark have a higher standard of living so corruption and compromised investigation of corruption is far less commonplace.
-Education in Denmark is of a very high standard.
-Denmark is bordered by countries where gun purchase and sales is extremely restrictive.

- Mexico is a poor country that borders the richest country with the highest drug consumption per capita
- Local and Federal Police are poorly paid so corruption is rampant. Drug sellers can kill Police officials and their families without fear of reprisals.
- Class sizes, and teachers low pay in Mexico means education standards are low.
-Mexico has a long a porous border with the USA (irrespective of the 'wall'), the smuggling infrastructure is very well established and financed.
- The USA, Mexico's neighbour has almost 400 million guns, with more being built and sold daily.
Old 11-15-2019, 07:05 AM
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