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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Let me tie your legs together and then run a marathon. If you think the ACA was ever fully implemented you need to do some more reading.

Remember the Trump tax cut when they took away the requirements? This allowed Anthem to throw out my small business plan and send me into the self pay market. Then the self pay market was allowed to discontinue PPOs and force me into an HMO. The number of companies offering insurance in that market dropped in half. I now have a policy that costs me more than the tax cut saved me, with less coverage. I spend $25,000/yr for a family of 4. I have $25,000 of debt from getting my sarcoidosis diagnosed that exceeded my coverage limits or was considered out of plan. And Trump would like to remove the pre-existing conditions coverage. People who have group plans through an employer generally have no idea what the rest of us deal with. It's good I'm not poor, or I'd be bankrupt already.
No ACA was never fully implemented and I actually agree with a few parts of it. However those of us who owned their own businesses (I had 30 employees at the time, up to 47 last week b4 I had to lay 7 off) before the Obama mess know a bunch of it was CRAP. Keep your DR?? barley, had to jump through hoops EVERY YEAR with all the changes to the insurance levels cost etc. to make sure I kept my Doctors. Cost?? yea it was going up b4 ACA but DAM it went up 10-15%+ every year after for 4 or 5 years if you kept like coverage. 25K? I'm paying closer to 30K for my 4 here in CA, and did you exceed the limits or is it because you went out of plan? on top of my 30k for family my wife still goes to her lady DR and we pay out of pocket due to her not taking the insurance we now have.

Again something needs to change, but if you think with what Bernie and the like are pushing your crazy, For good doctors and fast procedures there will be another level of cost that is only avail for the rich AND POLITICIANS!

Old 03-31-2020, 11:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #301 (permalink)
KNS KNS is offline
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Originally Posted by NYNick View Post

... my employees who had no health insurance would just take their kids to the emergency room if they had a cold, get treated and just stiff the hospital. When I asked them if they wanted group health insurance, they were all for it, until I told them they had to contribute. Not one of them was willing. Why should they contribute when they can just walk into the emergency room at anytime for anything?
This is extremely common around the country, unfortunately. Not to get this thread off the rails any further but for the 25+ years I lived in Arizona, also very common among the undocumented population. The ER is their family Doctor. The hospital eats those costs.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #302 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 06C2S View Post
No ACA was never fully implemented and I actually agree with a few parts of it. However those of us who owned their own businesses (I had 30 employees at the time, up to 47 last week b4 I had to lay 7 off) before the Obama mess know a bunch of it was CRAP. Keep your DR?? barley, had to jump through hoops EVERY YEAR with all the changes to the insurance levels cost etc. to make sure I kept my Doctors. Cost?? yea it was going up b4 ACA but DAM it went up 10-15%+ every year after for 4 or 5 years if you kept like coverage. 25K? I'm paying closer to 30K for my 4 here in CA, and did you exceed the limits or is it because you went out of plan? on top of my 30k for family my wife still goes to her lady DR and we pay out of pocket due to her not taking the insurance we now have.

Again something needs to change, but if you think with what Bernie and the like are pushing your crazy, For good doctors and fast procedures there will be another level of cost that is only avail for the rich AND POLITICIANS!
I neither said Obamacare was a fix all, nor did I say that Bernie was going to fix it either. What I said is a lot of people who talk trash about ACA don't realize how much Trump neutered it and made it worse. There was absolutely crap in it along with a lot of good.

As you highlight, each state is different. I left the people's republic for many reasons. Other than the beauty of the place there's very little that would ever make me want to go back to Cali. EVERYTHING costs more there.

Yes, I exceeded my limits. Neurosurgeons and lung biopsies are expensive AF. AND I went out of plan because Jewish Medical in Denver has one of the best pulmonary departments in the country. I chose to pay for a 2nd opinion that my insurance refused to cover because I wanted to be 100% sure the disease I have wasn't going to kill me.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #303 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 06C2S View Post
Umm not in health care in any way, not ignorant either. I have had my fare share if major medical issues (major HA at 44 and 3 stients one in the Widow Maker) so what ever. I believe if I was in a country with socialized med. I would be dead cause I was too young and in pretty good shape to be having a major HA.

Can we make improvements? YES! do we need wholesale change? I don't think so.
The data doesn't support your anecdotal experience or your feelings. Sorry but that is just the truth. We have an OK system on average, but its more expensive with worse outcomes than a lot of comparable countries. We are not trying to be like SE asia or SA lol, we should be striving to be the best.
Old 03-31-2020, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ShopCat View Post
The data doesn't support your anecdotal experience or your feelings. Sorry but that is just the truth. We have an OK system on average, but its more expensive with worse outcomes than a lot of comparable countries. We are not trying to be like SE asia or SA lol, we should be striving to be the best.
There are no comparable countries that have the legal AND illegal population that we do. NONE it doesn't exist in Europe, Canada, etc.

LOL I can tell by your quote you haven't been to SE Asia, Singapore is incredible on so many levels and we should try to be more like them just without the quasi military government.
Old 03-31-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 06C2S View Post
There are no comparable countries that have the legal AND illegal population that we do. NONE it doesn't exist in Europe, Canada, etc.

LOL I can tell by your quote you haven't been to SE Asia, Singapore is incredible on so many levels and we should try to be more like them just without the quasi military government.
We are discussing healthcare not whatever subject you are now trying to throw up in defense of SE Asia lol, how does that even relate? You used it as comparison to how great our system is lol. And how does illegal population affect healthcare outcomes like amenable mortality?
Old 03-31-2020, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 06C2S View Post
There are no comparable countries that have the legal AND illegal population that we do. NONE it doesn't exist in Europe, Canada, etc.

LOL I can tell by your quote you haven't been to SE Asia, Singapore is incredible on so many levels and we should try to be more like them just without the quasi military government.
I too am a business owner who self pays for my insurance , and it is like a bloody mortgage payment.
And I too got completely screwed when obummer care came into effect, in more ways than one, including a drastic increase of my premiums.
My 83 year old mother couldn't keep the doctor she had for years and was comfortable with, many doctors closed their practices and literally left the country (including the 2 doctors we were partnering with on a business venture that that old business partner and I were very heavily invested in) and that cost me a crapload of $$$$$$$$
If the medical treatment is so much better in other countries, why do so many celebrities and people who can afford to, come have medical treatments done in the good old USA?

https://pagesix.com/2019/04/01/as-mick-jagger-heads-for-heart-surgery-keith-richards-continues-to-defy-the-odds/

Quote:
And how does illegal population affect healthcare outcomes like amenable mortality?
Really, over burdening our hospitals, hell, years ago the town of Hastings, Florida lost their regional hospital because there are a lot of illegals there to pick ferns and the hospital could afford to operate anymore. So now if a resident of Hastings needs to go to the hospital, they have to drive over 40 minutes to St. Augustine.
So yes, illegal have had a negative effect on hospitals, just like their kids have to schools.
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Last edited by Racerbvd; 03-31-2020 at 03:45 PM..
Old 03-31-2020, 03:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #307 (permalink)
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Modeling for every state, of you care.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections?fbclid=IwAR1QhOAMI19DGyT6DZIDP22kQV2Cs XfKIdvm5xh9UvjRIEXfddkjdvzspT8
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Old 03-31-2020, 04:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #308 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerbvd View Post
I too am a business owner who self pays for my insurance , and it is like a bloody mortgage payment.
And I too got completely screwed when obummer care came into effect, in more ways than one, including a drastic increase of my premiums.
My 83 year old mother couldn't keep the doctor she had for years and was comfortable with, many doctors closed their practices and literally left the country (including the 2 doctors we were partnering with on a business venture that that old business partner and I were very heavily invested in) and that cost me a crapload of $$$$$$$$
If the medical treatment is so much better in other countries, why do so many celebrities and people who can afford to, come have medical treatments done in the good old USA?

https://pagesix.com/2019/04/01/as-mick-jagger-heads-for-heart-surgery-keith-richards-continues-to-defy-the-odds/


Really, over burdening our hospitals, hell, years ago the town of Hastings, Florida lost their regional hospital because there are a lot of illegals there to pick ferns and the hospital could afford to operate anymore. So now if a resident of Hastings needs to go to the hospital, they have to drive over 40 minutes to St. Augustine.
So yes, illegal have had a negative effect on hospitals, just like their kids have to schools.
Our quality of care for the people who can afford the best doctors is second to none in the world, thats part of the point lol. That doesn't refute the facts of our negative outcomes on average. Just keep believing what "feels" right and ignore all data to the contrary.

Overburdening? So the extra 3-4% population is doing our healthcare system in? Please.


On another note, my family plan is more than my mortgage, by 20%+. And I have a great group census with 85 male employees of working age in physically active positions.

Last edited by ShopCat; 03-31-2020 at 05:54 PM..
Old 03-31-2020, 05:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #309 (permalink)
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Something is amiss with the reported numbers for Japan on Worldometer. It says 1693 cases with the first reported case Jan 14th? Either you guys are doing a FANTASTIC job slowing the spread, the numbers aren't getting reported or there's not a lot of testing going on.

The USA had its first case Jan. 20 and we now have 125,000. What do you think Bern?
Another factor I missed Nick is that Japanese don't shake hands, they bow. They don't even hug their kids unless they are toddlers, or anyone else for that matter. Furthermore, coming out of Winter and flu season, so many people were already wearing masks as a norm, or so my wife mentioned. It's a cultural norm here if one has a hint of a sniffle, they wear a mask. Even if they don't want to catch something they are cautious and wear them, even before this virus ever existed. All these contributed to the fortunate numbers I'm sure. All schools were closed down nation wide at the beginning of March, just another factor.

It is still spreading here however. Economic turmoil is causing people to commit suicide, jumping in front of trains on a daily basis. This often happens here, but now more than ever. That's called a Jin Shin Jiko (human accident), which isn't media reported here. It only stops the train for awhile, delays all the trains and makes everyone late for work or school. Just another part of life here, perhaps one of the highest suicide rates in the world if not the highest. Health ins. and good quality healthcare are never a concern here.
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:23 AM
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^^^ Dang Bernie, That is nuts.
Kind of a sick culture to put money and things so high you kill yourself because of it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 911heaven View Post
Another factor I missed Nick is that Japanese don't shake hands, they bow. They don't even hug their kids unless they are toddlers, or anyone else for that matter. Furthermore, coming out of Winter and flu season, so many people were already wearing masks as a norm, or so my wife mentioned. It's a cultural norm here if one has a hint of a sniffle, they wear a mask. Even if they don't want to catch something they are cautious and wear them, even before this virus ever existed. All these contributed to the fortunate numbers I'm sure. All schools were closed down nation wide at the beginning of March, just another factor.

It is still spreading here however. Economic turmoil is causing people to commit suicide, jumping in front of trains on a daily basis. This often happens here, but now more than ever. That's called a Jin Shin Jiko (human accident), which isn't media reported here. It only stops the train for awhile, delays all the trains and makes everyone late for work or school. Just another part of life here, perhaps one of the highest suicide rates in the world if not the highest. Health ins. and good quality healthcare are never a concern here.
This is illuminating. Look at what % the cases are increasing daily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Japan

And what you tell us about the culture and no physical contact makes sense Bern. But there's no excuse for those 'human accidents'. That's horrible. At what point does loss of honor justify jumping in front of a train? Holy smokes.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
This is illuminating. Look at what % the cases are increasing daily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Japan

And what you tell us about the culture and no physical contact makes sense Bern. But there's no excuse for those 'human accidents'. That's horrible. At what point does loss of honor justify jumping in front of a train? Holy smokes.
I've never understood that aspect of Japanese culture, but it's a vary ancient mindset of seppuka. It's the way of the warrior that survives to this day.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I've never understood that aspect of Japanese culture, but it's a vary ancient mindset of seppuka. It's the way of the warrior that survives to this day.
It's Seppuku Matt.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:37 AM
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At the risk of getting this back on track, this just came out:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2020/04/01/porsche-deliveries-fell-20-2020-covid-19-rattles-auto-sales/5102241002/
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I've never understood that aspect of Japanese culture, but it's a vary ancient mindset of seppuka. It's the way of the warrior that survives to this day.
I think it's Seppuku or Harikiri Matt. Death by honor or even the opposite. I read a lot of books early in my tenure in Japan pre 21st century. I was quite inquisitive then, thought I was going to write a book one day. I still might before I croak.

Good example of someone who cut his guts out publicly in front of a crowd, Yukio Mishima. He is one of the greatest writers and at the same time was a staunch nationalist. Though a literary legend, most Japanese don't revere him for his views at the time (post WWII) One of his books called Hagakure is patterned after a Samurai long before who wrote the original Hagakure. There was some real McCoy going on too back in those days according to the nuances in original. That's perhaps another reason Mishima isn't as popular to modern day Japanese. They would want to downplay that and the suicide he committed on behalf of the fallen nation as he knew it. Don't get me wrong though, the Samurai were not only warriors, but also aesthetes in art and culture. They are revered to this day, and I wouldn't say many were homos.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:06 AM
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It's Seppuku Matt.
Thanks Bernisan.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:15 AM
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No risk there. I donít think many of us car about the newest ones.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:19 AM
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Thanks Bernisan.
I'm rusty, but the way of the warrior sounds like Bushido, more of a code, like fiske's Marines!
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:21 AM
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America just became more than 10% of the fatalities with over 22% of confirmed cases. sad.

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Old 04-01-2020, 09:35 AM
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