Never ending. I have so many “fun” stories to share just feeling like dog crap lately as I lost my best buddy, English Bulldog last week.

[QUOTE=NYNick;10907590] Oh, we got it all figured out, and can still work out arses off to make the ideas happen.

40's is the new sweet spot.

---Adam

^^^

You'll definitely be referring to the 40s as a sweet spot when you are in your 50s and wondering how the fuuuuck this happened so quickly! :eek:

Correct. And 60's.

No doubt it was a broad stroke and I would agree it is todays approach to parenting that is causing such issues. Even my wife can't help but spoil her only son. It took us 10 years and a huge amount of stress to have him so I get it to a degree. My parents rode me hard and there was no resting on my laurels. I spent my teen summers working on thoroughbred race horse farms, foundries and restaurants since i was 13. I agree there were underachievers in my day as well as some brilliant people. Although even the underachievers worked. I was actually the underachiever of my HS graduating class. Probably the least successful of them all. One ran for NJ Governor against Murphy but was out spent and is now legal council for NYCPD, he spent the entire Clinton administration overseeing the CIA, NSA and other agencies. They range from Spine Surgeons who own their own hospitals not clinics and has patented some of the modern spine implants that are 3D scanned and printed just prior to insertion, Top commercial lenders at banks and CEO's of fortune 100 companies etc to name a few. Although one was crazy and kept telling us In HS that she was abducted by aliens and men in Black suits would come and try to erase her memory but they couldn't. She ended up on The 1980's TV show Ripley's Believe it or not with Jack Palance and I heard her voice on the tv. She was actually used as a reference for the MIB movies. LOL

My sons friends just graduated one is now employed by Lloyds of London making serious money. They are out there but these are the exception not the rule as I see it. When speaking to friends with kids ranging from 20-30's it is all the same complaints about getting them motivated and moving out. So there seems to be a commonality to it.


Please say what you feel and don't hold back.

I don't spend my time in my garage as suga seems to think. I mentor and help out several business since I have retired. One was a foundry where we came up with a new healthier sand mix that produces one of the finest magnesium sand castings I have ever seen and my parts were considered the best in the industry. Spent a number of years helping a friend with his restoration and paint shop. He inherited a business and helped him organize and move it to a new location and has built it into one of the best restoration shops I know of and I know everyone considered the top east coast shops as recognized by PCA. Currently I am mentoring some 30 something's. One is just downright brilliant one of the smartest technical minds i have met the other graduated top of his class from Stevens Institute for Engineering and equally as smart but more educated than brilliant. They fix others mistakes and they are abundant. Many are from some of the top known Porsche shops as well as young hacks. They can tune any make or model car from old Kugelffisher and CIS to the latest ECU's. They tune Motec, Syvecs, Haltech, Aim, Vems etc and can crack factory ECU's. They also have the latest best Hunter equipment and know how to use it. We have also tested and fit some of the latest SOUL exhaust systems and their dyno charts are used to show actual power gains on their mustang dyno. These are the exceptions I mention.

My comments are based on so many factors but mostly on the myriad of youths that come into the shop to have these guys fix others crappy work. So much hack work done by well know internet followed shops and the work was done by a 30 something who used a google search to perform the work for the first time and or usually we can see the video of the shops hack job on line and people applauding it. I can't tell you how many come in still living at home spending their parents money a second time or having to deal with the parents pleading with us to fix what their son or daughter paid to have done by these hacks. Even my son sees it and complains at 22. He is fed up with most of the people his generation and older for the same reasons I mention.

Of course there is always the rule and the exception. As I see it 20% of the young kids I see come into these shops have a clue the rest are clueless. It is the comments from people that say Yawn get over it that seem to me to be the biggest concerns and don't and or won't see the error of their ways until it is way too late in life.

It is the internet and this is just another opinion out of so many but I am not alone in my assertions and can quote many 30 somethings who IMO will make it complain even more than I about their peers.

Tell your friend to go to Costco and get 4 or 5 bags of the 15lb baking soda.
The Acid will only keep the ph at 7.5 a day, at best, while the plaster cures if he doesn't keep the alkalinity at max with the baking soda.
Just something I learned while my plaster was curing. Kept adding acid and a day later the ph was back at 9+. Got the alkalinity to 120 and the Ph stabilized and held a lot longer.

he's stubborn as fuch and is hiring a pool maintenance guy that will be out in the next day or so. other thing is it was filled with potable water from a hydrant so the character of the water will be changing greatly as the well water starts to be added moving forward. the contractor has suggested he get the water tested & treated ASAP. that has to do with the plaster cure if im following you?

even though we are less than a mile apart his water is very, very calcium rich, where as mine is high in iron. mine is hard, but not nearly as his. ive got a pretty good system that removes the iron/manganese with a pretty decent softener.

thanks for the heads up, but there is no Costco w/I 60 miles of here.:(

This is one of the most frustrating things to witness as someone that has put in over two decades of back-breaking work to build my reputation to see these hacks be so popular for no good reason other than enough of a fan club cheering for them. Their work often times is abominable. To be clear I am busy so I am not wanting the work the are getting it’s just super frustrating and occasionally makes me wonder why I try so hard to be the best that I can be

Nick, Anthony and Nathan. Please fix your quotes. I can't tell who's quoting who...

Anthony appears to be quoting himself in post #45.

[QUOTE=Cobalt;10908955] My only point is that this is no different from the past generations IMO. Maybe your definition of "hard work" is the difference of our opinion, but that is inevitable with technological progress. Anyone from the 1800s would think we are all lazy a***oles for even having the time to discuss this.

???

!!!

:eek:

Nick deserves the ballz kick for that one; bisch messed up when he quoted Anthony a while back, and the other two bisches couldn't figure it out either! :D

This is true. I screwed up. Must've had a senior moment. Please send money. I'm old and frail.

The man speaks truth.
I swear I just turned 30 only the other day.

Myself and others think you’re wrong, and have the experience to back up our opinions. The kids I was hiring and training 20 years ago had a way different mentality in general than they do do today. There’s a sense of entitlement and this idea that the world owes them something that hasn’t always been a part of our society. Some people talk about participation trophies and this idea that everyone is special with esteem building. I don’t honestly know the reason.

I saw it even with my own little brother. We are 18 years apart but raised the exact same way, except for maybe the fact that my dad was upper middle class versus plain Jane middle class by the time he came along. He was one of the single worst employees I ever had. He felt every little task was beneath him. He didn’t understand my own ethos that I would never ask an employee to do something I hadn’t done myself. And every job, even sweeping the shop floor and recycling oil was essential to the business.

After I fired him he got another job. A couple years later he apologized for being so useless. I thought maybe he had changed. Just last year he finished his MBA. That same entitled attitude came back. He felt like now he had earned that perfect job in management in the field of his choice and couldn’t understand why he couldn’t get the job. 9 months went by and his savings were gone. He just accepted an entry level job in financial services. Not his field of choice, but it’s a job. Maybe he will embrace it and learn that promotions are earned.

I have an uncle in his 50s the exact same way. Fired from every job he's ever had because of it. Pattern is always the same, entry level job, does well, thinks he should be promoted immediately, goes over management's head, fired shortly after. Always been this way and always will be probably. My dad and him are polar opposites, hardest worker I will ever know, nature vs nurture back again. These examples are in any generation. I mean damn aren't boomers the "Me" generation?

Yes, there are examples in every generation, but stereotypes exist for a reason...it's because they are true.

This is what I get for responding prior to my 2nd cup of morning coffee.:rolleyes: No doubt getting old. I believe i fixed it. I am out of the house from 10AM till 6 most days working on one car at one shop or another. I am chopping the sunroof off my C2 at my friends body shop and building my RSR track car at the other. I can access the forums on my phone but don't bother with internet while I am working. When I work I work when I socialize I socialize. Today everything seems intertwined and the constant distractions lead to lack of productivity. I watch as business is lost and people complain but they don't realize it is in their hands to correct that and won't put the effort into their own business if it means giving up their internet time.

I agree with Matt. The sense of entitlement and easy or free parents money is a problem. Had a nice young college student show up with his 991 GT3RS with another $100K in options and mods yesterday looking for more power. :mad: I could spoil my son but isn't happening. Just graduated and he will have hard time getting a serious job while the virus is rampant but he has to work or else. He has interned at the tuning shop these past few summers and is now going to organize their business for them. Too much time spent on the phones and not actually running the business.

I hired more than my share of 20-30 somethings over the years and I also hired convicts in halfway houses to give them a helping hand. In the 80's they were grateful and worked hard by the 90's I saw a bit more entitlement and by the 00's it was game over and I stopped trying to help these kids out. It went from being grateful to have a job to begging me for a job but once they got it I got the " If you pay me more I will work harder" Then the phones become popular and I needed to install cameras to watch over my employees as the young kids were always off someplace hiding talking on their phone. Today they don't even need to talk to be distracted.

I have a lot of friends who own successful businesses and the biggest complaint is finding motivated workers who take pride in their work or simply finding anyone willing to work. I watch as min wage goes to $15 an hour and these people for the most part should be grateful to have a job but want more. The work ethic is as poor as it gets and I watch as all they do is complain. We are rewarding people for being lazy and we can thank some idiots in Washington or some state governors for this. In many ways I am grateful I was forced into early retirement. I wouldn't be able to keep any self control dealing with what I see today and feel for my friends who have to worry if the next person they hire will perform and if they are litigious or not. Seems like fake lawsuits are a common thing today and 90% of the time insurance pays out vs fighting.

Wow, Anthony a mouthful covering a few topics.

My theory: Hire slow, fire fast coupled with a commitment to the patience required for training. An organization needs to train to a specific performance which is measurable by clearly defined and well communicated metrics. I find all employees need not only management but proper supervision.

To one of Anthony's points I banned cell phones in the workplace and made use of any social media on company machines against the rules. That helped with productivity but not attitude

It's been 7 years since I last had an employee. Restructuring my business and creating something that just my wife and I could run was huge. It did impact our volume and potential for future growth but a $40-50k drop in payroll type expenses has offset it enough that the impact to my bottom line is negligible.

i worked for public agencies for 20+ years and there is a segment of people there that will do as little quality work as possible and not give two fuchs. worst part is managers pretty much look the other way because the process involved in getting them corrected or removed in and of itself will become a full time job. a fellow inspector in my group used to fall asleep everyday at his desk doing a chicken peck head bob snore thing as managers just walked right by his work station. dude even fell asleep while driving a city vehicle (allegedly) totaling the city truck and the lady he ran into car when he went through a red light. then he was pissed when they assigned him a really old vehicle after wrecking his 2 y/o F150 in the incident.

this was a component of me taking early retirement. id call other employees on stuff AND id be the one written up for creating a hostile work place! the mamagers repremanding me knew the score and would suggest "i don't lose the passion" cause they knew i was trying to do right by the city and was simply frustrated.

80% of my operators are over 55 and our best blade operator is 60. I joke that I'm going to retire early when they do because I'll be out of good employees. We have a few 30 somethings and one 20 something that know how to work.

We have tried to hire some young people. What Anthony said. Always hiding somewhere on their phones. This business is too dangerous to be distracted with phones.

I bet that guy suffered from sleep apnea.

I hired a 20 something and he worked for the day seemed like he had decent skills. He came to me at the end of the day and asked if he could have the day off tomorrow to go try out another shop that was hiring. I said sure but you are not welcome back. Needless to say he’s emailed me a dozen times asking to come back. Every time I run a help wanted ad he replies. What the hell is wrong with people? This is not how the world works

Another point. Blend employees so you have a mix of experience that allows multi-level development. Helps in teaching an ethic as well integrate into culture.

Lol all of this sh** applies to older employees as well, you're in lala land if you disagree. I go through so many operators and truck drivers for sleeping/personal runs on company time its not funny, and plenty of them are older. I just disagree that its somehow an age thing. You would think the older guys would have their sh** together more but can't say I've seen a trend either way, and our payroll runs 6 digits a week so I hire/fire a lot of people.

Matt your setup sounds like the dream, I'm hoping for something similar eventually, if I'm lucky maybe I'm only 10 years away.

Fifth generation family food manufacturing business.... 700+ employees.... union/non-union, Oldest employee 70 - youngest 18.... every race, religion, orientation..... my set up is also a dream.....

As a chief decision maker I realize employee development is critical and we view it as an educational experience that we are required to provide. We do churn at the factory level, a 30% turnover would be considered an accomplishment.

To the point of this thread, we do not view age groups differently.

ding ding ding! yep, as do I so we had on occasion discussed our CPAP usage. did not help that he weighted dam near #350. An at desk nap was always in order after he mowed his 2 or 3 fast food burgers, large fries n drink along with the salad and other healthy stuff his wife would pack him in an effort to get him right.

a job is like a girlfriend in that it's hard to get a new one when the old one is still on board.

Id take him back one more time.
I've had a few leave over the years. If they are good. I always let them know the door is open if it doesn't work out.
When they come back they never leave again.
I recently had a foreman turn down $5.00 an hr more from another company.
He was one of the guys that left for a Union position about three years ago. Came back within a month. No amount of money will make you happy at a bad company.

I'm glad that I'm self employed so I don't have to deal wiff all youse fuukity fuuk bosses and lame ass coworkers! Sucks to be you guys!!! :D

I would wholeheartedly agree but he did it on his second day.

That infamous espo job was a pretty bad hack, wasn't it ?

This ^^^
There are lazy slobs, do nothings and "what can you give me" in every generation. Just look at your friends and do an honest count, whatever generation you are in. Half will be ok. The other half will be struggling or non productive their entire lives.

And half of those struggling have a degree and think they are worth $150k a year to do nothing.


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If he was fairly young, I'd possibly give him a second chance. He may have had the other interview in the works when he got offered the job from you. Now he's in the position of saying yes but not sure what he's gonna miss out on at the other place. He may have been too niave to it all to be able to say,"Can I have a day to sleep on it?" and just took the job. He should have done what he said he was going to do, which is work for you, but sometimes people screw up and later regret it. If he's still trying to work for you maybe he really does want to work for you. You can always fire him a week later after a trial period. This assumes you even need someone right now.

Yeah makes sense but my intuition is telling me that if he didn’t respect me enough then what makes him respect me now? If anything he likely would respect me less now as I took him back. I’m always hiring but not desperate at the moment so he can keep looking for the greener grass another day

He could have called in sick.
Telling you is at least honest.
After 2 days it’s not like he owes you anything - and vice versa. Why wouldn’t he look to see if the grass is greener?

I’d expect him to actually apply himself if he got a second bite with a strict no more do overs rule.
Ymmv.

The kid Nathan is talking about was silly and inconsiderate to take the job and quit the next day, but the fact that he is even asking again for work from Nathan shows he has a pretty sizable set of ballz on him; nothing worse than having a pissant yes-man around, so maybe the fairly rare, display of ballz is promising?

It wasn’t personal in any way, shape or form. It has nothing to do with if he respects you or not. That’s just not how most people’s minds work.

Yeah you are likely right but I’m looking for staff that think more than that. Critical thinking is paramount in our businesses. If he was smart he could have figured out a way to check out the other job without ruining his chances with me.