Name That Price - An Engine Rebuild
 

I am working with a reputable Porsche shop on a 3.2 to 3.4 rebuild (slip fit Mahle pistons and cylinders - no twin plugging). They are big into club racing and have done this motor many times…the quote was WAY beyond the budget number they shared with me from a similar build back in December. I have seen various posts online documenting the cost, but nothing recent. So if you have experience in this arena, please share a ballpark number.

Here is the “quote” that came as an email without the actual price included:

…wanted me to pass a quote on to you for work on your 3.2 rebuild. Split cases, machining, all new parts including Carillo rods and webcam cams. Oil lines, seals and all associated hardware. New clutch, powder coating of select parts, and all labor to complete this job along with state sales tax…$$$.

Thank you in advance for playing!

Minimum $20 - $25K for that.

I did that build myself and have $10K into the motor for parts and machine work. Add $10K for labor and you have $20K, maybe more depending on the labor rates...

I'm gonna go for $30k. I think the old $20k quote is the new $30k one.

You beat me to it. 30K-ish is my thought.

I'm doing a 3.2-3.45 litre build for myself. Using a 3.6 crank and 98mm pistons. I think people call this a 3.5 litre build more commonly but it is actually 3.45litre.
https://www.facebook.com/mikedsilvaengines

It is creeping up in cost..

These days, I’m thinking realistic is $45k…depending where you are located, it could be around $60k depending on how impressed the shop might be with themselves.

Blu…are you saying this from experience? Last year, as I was prepping for this project, I had a few different conversations with mechanics. The 17-22K was typical from standard Porsche mechanics, and I did encounter one mechanic who fell into the “impressed with themselves” category that was ~50% higher. My current quote is even higher…:confused:

My very recent experience is, if you are paying a shop, the $20-25k budget simply won’t cut it. Especially in SoCal or the northeast.

I was recently shopping around just to get headstuds and the northeast shops didn’t want to just do a top end for fear of more major repairs needed in the next few years afterwards. So they all quoted me high 20’s as a minimum. So I did it myself.

In SoCal, I went thru the exercise of a full rebuild with case split. That got wrapped up late last year. My numbers were based on that project. And close second hand experience of a rebuild like you are planning.

I’d be interested in seeing the split of parts versus labor. Parts prices have skyrocketed in the last year. How much of the change in the new quote is parts?

...And most reputable shops are backed up and won't be able to get to you until the summer or later if you accept.

Sort of in the same vein - the quote I received from a well known local shop was $14,000 for just a reseal.

Is a reseal exactly as it sounds? Ie, complete strip and clean, and assuming all parts measure within spec and do not have wear or damage, the motor is re-assembled exactly the same?
Does that mean they do no machining of heads etc?
I assume they install new bearings and rod bolts etc?

Curious to learn.

These are all details we are planning to hammer out next month. I presumed the answer is "yes" but I'll certainly let you know.

It's part of a laundry list of items I'm having done and the detailed list of the big ticket items haven't been fully fleshed out.

These $50, $60 and $70K SC's and 3.2's being sold daily on BaT and elsewhere most likely all need to be rebuilt. Can you imagine the shock when the new owners realize what they've gotten themselves into?
Caveat Emptor.

Maybe they should talk to John W.

Maybe they don't care. Maybe they accept it's part of the landscape. It's strange times with how people are spending money with reckless abandon.

It's end of world thinking. You've got covid, which triggered a lot of live for today thinking. And you've got the looming death of the ICE, which is creating a golden age of vintage hot rodding. People aren't waiting until they retire for living.

For a decade I sold almost nothing for 964 and 993 gearboxes other than LSDs. Now, these customers are spending as much as it would cost to rebuild a cup car gearbox, on their hot rods. It's not just Singer and Gunterwerks, but is market wide. I had stopped making G50 5spd gears. For the last two years now, I sell out my packages almost as quickly as I make them.

^^^
I've said this since covid hit in '20' "Crazy times we're living in. Everything is up and not by just a little either.

It feels like the 80s and the rise of the yuppies. But less coke.

Let's remember what happened after that run up, in 1987. I was there in the middle of it and it wasn't pretty.

Then the early 90's, just not as bad.

Or 2006. I was in the middle of that one too. I myself got caught up in that deal. I was lucky to work my way out of a very bad situation back then. Lawyers and banks. Ugh.

Quite honestly, it feels more like the one in 2006, today. Irrational exuberance, out of control spending and nasty inflation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going to happen. In fact, it's happening right now. Just look at how the stock market has behaved since January. And Unemployment. And Real Estate, again.

Don't do anything rash. Be smart. Spend wisely.
This one will pass too.

I just mean the lifestyle and attitudes. Fast and free living large. And to be honest, I think there’s some nostalgia about that time, by Gen Xers who watched it growing up.

I’ll leave the economic and other stuff for parf.

Agreed. Only the bubble is bigger now considering the inflated cost of everything.

It's crazy though. It's like no one cares what things cost.

HEY! I'm a Gen X'r .

So am I Nick. No generation is monolithic. But I do think it captures a large percentage of the people buying these things. People buying 6 figure toy cars aren’t worried about the cost of bacon or beef. Obviously not all of us are doing that good.

Cabbie…I’m a GenXer too…I did really enjoy Grand Theft Auto Vice City…<wink>

We are facing a series of cascading events…COVID, Chinese and global supply chain BS, inflation and now Russian oil looped in.

I spoke with the shop today, and parts prices are WAY up…much having to be sourced directly from Europe. They also said the splitting of the case really escalates the cost. The shop also has to sub out a few parts of the process.

$17-22K is gone, but this may still be a premium moment. Definitely not looking to buy a house in this market. A Dyno pull currently puts the car at 186 hp at the wheels…it is chipped and has an M&K exhaust system. My hope is that the shop does it right…with the right parts…and I get a motor capable of 240+ at the wheels.

40hrs at $200-250 an hour was labor on a full rebuild in the Midwest. I’d wager that’s up 20% bc cost of living is up 10% compounding, and mechanics know what’s going on over at BaT. I’d have said 1.5x that for parts but obviously there’s a huge range depending on which parts. I think a bigger problem is the dearth of quality mechanics, even if you do have the dollaridoos to spend.

Big Weimar Republic vibes right now. On more than just the economic front sadly.

I don’t think the labor rate is as high as you say…the rate in my quote is in the low one hundreds…but 60 hrs.

Reality is engines and their builds are escalating as fast as cars.

I was looking at a 911/83 engine last week that needed to be re-commissioned for $60K; which meant fully installed the costs would be between $70,000 and $80,000 w/o shipping.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1117129-911-83-complete-engine.html

The same proposition 8 years ago; the budget at the time, fully installed, was $50,000.


Here is an S engine for $45,000
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1117576-fs-72-2-4-s-mfi-engine.html


But there is nothing cooler than a modified engine......

Feels like so many/most are priced out of tip top running cars now. I feel like the adage when I started in the air-cooled world in the late 2000s was to keep 10k around at any given moment for a major repair. That number feels like it's 30 - 40k today.

Hell, I'm rethinking my reseal. The car runs great; it just sweats oil from all the places. I may just have the 901 rebuilt and have any of the easy-to-reach areas like the return tubes replaced and just enjoy it. It's just a hot rod and I feel somewhat stupid dropping 25-30k into a car that's a mash-up of period and non-period/model correct parts.

Singer engine purchase price

PERFORMANCE
ENGINE: 4.0L --- $85,000
CAMS: Big -
INTAKE: Ceramic Plenum (4.0) -
TUNE/ECU: Standard MoTeC -
CATS: High Flow -
EXHAUST: Titanium --- $25,000


https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/singer-quotreimaginedquot-9116671/

Sweet, I'll take two.

That’s sweet, but apples to oranges, right?

There are also a lot of trades throwing out "Go Away" prices because they are too busy.
I've stopped pricing all together because owners are still saying yes and the extra profit doesn't fix my labor shortage.

Definitely could see that happening when talking budgetary numbers…in my instance it was after the motor was out and disassembled… :(

We are charging $10K + parts for a standard 3.2 rebuild. Peter Dawe trained builder with dozens of 3.2’s under his belt. I will soon be listing a rebuilt 3.2 for $29,995 but we are happy to rebuild a customers engine or take a core for credit.

Y'all be scaring me to death with all these high end rebuild estimates and for good reasons. First, there must be a dichotomization between an engine removed and installed by the builder with all essential parts vs just a stand alone motor rebuild. Storage in shop for a car, time etc. all adds up, and don't forget all the extra parts they may charge one for!

In my case it's the stand alone latter rebuild. Mine is in England Cambridgeshire at CTR Developments -
ever heard of them? It was meant to be home here almost 2 years ago, then came Covid to England big time. For all that time it escalated so the shop stalled bus. due to lock downs and their safety. Still to this day it's in limbo.

What scares me most is the tank in my Japanese yen exchange rate recently @ 20% or more, just since a month ago. The catch 22 is that on full strip, inspection and proper rebuild, no real estimate can be made until that happens. Engine was over revved on a track in Norway when throttle pedal got stuck for about 7-9 seconds. It bounced off the rev limiter for that long, blew some oil out of the catch tank. Ruf 3.4 BTR motor, angry engine as described, still runs but with a ticking sound, presumably up top end. 10,000 pounds is what I've saved and budgeted for, and that was sort of the quote. They still haven't started on it. The alternative is to have it shipped to Japan without rebuild and deal with it here. My gut says leave it with them, grin and bear it even on what it ends up costing. My reasoning for that is that I was introduced, told they are the best Porsche race engine builder in the UK, like a restaurant always booked, so I'm lucky to be there?!

Looking for advice from the Pelican brotherhood. Thank you in advance if there are any insights!

bernie

Do you all rebuild 2.7s?

I'm also in Wilmington.

Yes. We can pick up and deliver either engine or entire car. Space for cars is very limited so we would probably drop engine and return roller while engine is getting rebuilt.
2.7's may differ in price depending on the amount of machining required to the case.

We also do 911, 914 & 915 trans.