WTB - 87 thru 89 Carrera G50 Coupe

Mark021 · 10-23-2008, 10:34 AM

I'm reaching out for the members assistance.

Grew up with an early 70's 911 as a huge part of my youth and at 49 I want to experience the joy of plodding along on country roads in a loud, oil smelling 911 with the windows down and the wind in my face again before I forget how to and green jello becomes my focus.

My wife is completely on board and fully supportive... can't even say that with a straight face. But it's like a friend was telling me, forget trying to get her to understand, she'll get over it... eventually.

I've attempted to be realistic in my assessment. I have a little over $20K to work with and would like to keep a little back for minor things up front. I can't handle a $12K issue on a car that I pay $18K for and really want to do my best to avoid that and find something that has a shot at making 200K without it.

My appreciation is the 87 to 89 Carrera fits my objective if I can find one with enough use that it's affordable yet meticulously maintained.

Where do I start?

JB36 · 10-23-2008, 12:01 PM

Start by picking up a copy of Pete Zimmerman's Used 911 Story. It's an easy read that will give you a pretty good feel about these cars and what to look for. Randy Leffingwell has a good buyers guide as well. The first thing is to be patient and find a good one. There are plenty out there. I would look at and drive anything from a '78 SC through a '94 964 in your price range. Get a feel for the car you want and become familiar with them. I would also rather buy from an enthusiast rather than a dealer/flipper. They mark up too much and there isn't a guarantee your getting a better car.

I would prepare a list of questions for a seller to make sure you're not wasting your time in looking at junk. Ask if the seller has invoices for reapirs to show care and what work has been done. Ask if the seller if they object to a pre-purchase inspection. Check the car over the best you can concentrating on condition and how well it drives. There are plenty out there and you should be able to find one with no rust issues, good paint and reasonable interior. If your satisfied with car, make an appoint for a PPI. These cars are built like tanks, but they can be very expensive to fix. Clutch, transmission, and engine can cost big dollars. I wouldn't sweet the small stuff. The inspection should be through and unbiased. Don't use the seller's shop. Post pics to a thread is you like with as much information as you have and I'm sure some people will give opinions.

Frank

Beethoven · 11-01-2008, 10:24 PM

I'm just sayin'...
FS 1988 Carrera

RacerX1166 · 11-02-2008, 06:53 AM

Mark, welcome to the hunt.

Let me know a bit more about your criteria and I'll keep my eyes open.

+1 on everything Frank said. Pete's book has been a gift from heaven on my journey. Per the above, know what you want and don't deviate unless a bluebird (PPI'd bluebird) comes your way. Depending on your criteria for mileage, etc. you might be better off getting a nice SC or 915 car in your price range.

Mark021 · 07:36 PM

Thanks guys,

Yes it appears that the price range I want to shop in pushes me more toward a 915, but I want to believe in Santa so I'm going to go slow here and see what happens. Under the heading of "it happens" I refer to the silver 87 out of Chicago with about 70K miles on it that was sold within a couple of days of listing for $21K I believe, it was exactly what I would have hoped to find where the body appeared immaculate and the owner apparently had the means to put the money into the car mechanically and then the class to turn it without listing it for $35K like most arround here look like they would.

I grew up with these things and it's a feeling I'm hoping to recapture, something very simple. The sound of the 911 growling down a country road wih the country girl smiling at me with the wind in her hair is long passed but the joy of that time in life lives on and an oil burning pale yellow 73 911 with windows that just refused to role up lives on.

I'm not looking for something to sit in the garage and stare at but I do want something that is "relatively" low maintenance and as mechanically sound as I can find so an 87, 88, 89 with about $10K worth of engine/suspension/transmission maintenance previously committed to it over the years by an owner who respects it but also drives it would be perfect. Maybe there will be another situation where the car just needs to go and it truly isn't about squeezing the most money out of the fantasy that it'll be worth $100K some day. These cars were made to be driven and driven hard, that's the joy of them. A full 90% of the stuff I've seen on this site is never going to be anything more than drivers so it amazes me how much more people try to make out of them.

Off my rant,

Cheers

Here's to youth and the sound of a 911 screaming down country roads and corn fields... and that girl with the wind in her hair smiling back at you on a warm summer day.

Mark021 · 11-02-2008, 07:53 PM

My only real criteria is that I would prefer a a coupe and I just don't think I can do red, I'm more the "good coat of primer" on a 71 barracuda type.

VroomGrrl · 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark021

My only real criteria is that I would prefer a a coupe and I just don't think I can do red, I'm more the "good coat of primer" on a 71 barracuda type.

I will never forget the first time I sat in the driver's seat of my 911 - the smells threw me straight back to my high school days, at the wheel of my poor cousin to the Porsche, a VW Superbeetle. So did the ride! Total throwback. Just got it in late July and have finally driven it enough to feel really at home in it. Love, love, love it.

You'll find your car. They are out there. I had similar requirements for my purchase - coupe, no red, and I didn't want a tail either. I was more concerned with dependability and how it ran & rode than how it looked. I would think with the economy the way it appears to be, you could expect some excellent deals.

Sent you a PM with some additional thoughts.

Happy test driving!
Kathy

Rot 911 · 11-03-2008, 05:51 AM

I don't understand people limiting themselves to a G50 without ever having driven a 915. There are 10's of thousands of 915 911's out there that people seem to have no trouble driving.

Monza_dh · Monza_dh's Garage

[QUOTE=Kurt V;4278389]I don't understand people limiting themselves to a G50 without ever having driven a 915. There are 10's of thousands of 915 911's out there that people seem to have no trouble driving.[/QUOTE

I agree with Kurt above on the 915. I would also recommend start driving as many 911's as you can get your hands on. Drive every sub $10K SC to $30K 993's and see if the dream G50 is such a necessity.

Now dont get me wrong I own an '88 G50, more than chance than a determined choice, so I love the fact everyone wants one and if I ever sell it I hope it is still in hight demand.

I will say however, the SC I drove a few days prior to buying mine had a refreshed 915 and while the throws were long it shifted great. My G50 even grinds a little going from 2nd to 3rd when cold so not all G50's are perfect.

Good luck

Mark021 · 06:22 AM

Thanks Kathy, I'm going to go slow. I have the time and not as much disposable income. My quest is totally for the love of it. Any car that I get will probably grow old along with me and I'll be that old fart in a baseball cap grumbling down back roads on his way to the store to get his green jello... but there'll still be that twinkle in his eye.

Kurt, I completely appreciate your sentiments re., a 915 and am not completely against the idea. It's purely economics and capacity on my part. Like so many paradoxes in life it seems that the G50 transmission cars are very sought after for thier stability and because of this they are the car of choice for so many collectors that will drive them 500 miles a year on 3 weekends in the summer. While I have an appreciation for the craftsmanship and the design of the vehicle that is not my objective. I want a car that I can know... really know... and that doesn't happen in 3 weekend drives.

I have been told by many that the older 930's have more personality than anything that came after, and my memories of the pale yellow rust bucket are some of my most cherished. My desire for the upgraded transmission and engine components is simply a desire to spend less time working on it and more time driving it so in a way the G50 is a compromise, and I'm getting older so windows that actually roll up sound kind of nice.

Mark021 · 11-03-2008, 07:45 AM

Here's a link to a car being marketed in SD. I would like to ask for your thoughts on something like this. As my goal is to find the best "driver" that I can for around $20K, my concerns are not as much focused on being able to "turn over" the car. If I'm lucky enough to find a decent one in my price range I'll probably be buried with it. My concern would be more in the way of the fact that this "little problem" is only the tip of the iceberg of a long list of isses.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/899423815.html

Any and all feedback sincerely appreciated.

Regards,

Mark

RacerX1166 · 11-03-2008, 08:56 AM

I think I'd be concerned about a car with that history but, if it PPI's well, go for it. I've seen that car for sale a few times so be cautious. One of the lessons I've learned is that cars that have been for sale a long time because they usually have a reason to be. You need to determine what that reason is.

I can't emphasize the 'do your research' point enough. If you don't know what questions to ask and what to look at, you will PPI a bunch of cars that will be junk.

BTW, I understand your need for a decent driver and not a show piece but, from what I've found, mechanical condition and cosmetic condition on these cars go somewhat hand in hand. I just did a quick look in the usual places and I didn't see anything that I'd spend my $20k on, if that were my budget. In that price range, be patient but be prepared to grab something, should it come up.

mike monde · 10:25 AM

Mark,
I have owned both 911's with a G-50 and the 915. I suggest you drive as many as possible to get a feel on what you like. I can tell you the I sold a fine shifting 915 for a G-50 car and the difference to me was minimal. I actually enjoyed the 915 for whatever reason. I currently own a 911SC that to me was just a little more "raw" then the Carrera which is what I wanted.
For 20K, I would seek out the best SC I could find in the 14 to 18K range and expect to drop another 2 to 4 in to it to get it sorted to your tastes instead of a lower end Carrera that you will be running across in your price range. What ever you spend, expect to spend another 5 to 6k on top of your purchase price for items that will for sure come across once you own it.
Good luck in your search!

Mark021 · 11-03-2008, 10:27 AM

Thanks Racer,

I have a strong assumption that there is probably more to it than the little title issue. I was just curious if anyone could speak to the specific issue of the VIN's getting ripped out and then getting other VIN stickers from New York, etc. The whole write-up is a bit confusing to me in in terms of events and actions so I'm not too serious about following up.

I've done a bit of research and have much to do. I know a well maintained car is probably going to look and feel like a well maintained car. I guess I'm in hopes of finding that car that the owner purchased and maintained out of a realistic appreciation of what is required to keep it in solid mechanical shape and whose time has come to move onto something else. The low key engineering exec who has his eye on some other toy and the 911 that he's had for the last 12 years that he purchased from a colleague that had it for the first 8 years type of car that may have 80K on it but the work was always done on time and done right. Maybe they are still out there, I'm not sure. These guys probably don't lurk in these websites too often as they are not the hardcore enthusiasts and the cars are probably sold before they even hit the market more often than not.

But I'm going to keep hoping that one or two will cross my radar.

RacerX1166 · 11-03-2008, 12:09 PM

Keep your eyes on Craigslist, here, Rennlist, ebay, cars.com, autotrader, etc. As I said, a bluebird shows up from time to time but, if you're too late, it gets picked up by a Tim Holt, Victory, Sloan, etc. then gets marked up quite a bit. I've seen it happen at least three times since I've been shopping.

Some of these cars never hit the market because folks, like the engineering manager (or our corporate attorney), just sell their cars outright to the specialty dealers.

There's actually not a lot of cars out there at any price at the moment. I was expecting a winter selloff, along with a panic dump, but I see fewer cars on the market each week.

trader220 · 02:47 PM

There is always a good selection of cars out there. Paging through auto trader and ebay shows nearly 75 cars around the country for sale in the 1987 to 89 911 markets. Now thats targa, cab and coupe but there are always cars around. As others have mentioned dont rule out a 915 car, lets face it they made a heck of a lot more 915 cars so the thing must have worked pretty well.

Sloan does not have all the cars he lists and he does not really deal in the 25k and under market much. Tim Holt only buys the cream of the crop stuff and he rarely buys from the west coast. The socal market is always a hot bed of cars. As far as Victory goes, they buy a lot of slop and then they shine em up and hope you don't dig too deep into the car. If you do a search of my posts on them I have a vile distaste for their business practices too.

I agree with those who gave you the heads up to get out there and drive a bunch, nothing you can do will help you narrow down what you like and teach you more about the individual models then seeing, touching and driving them.

BTW I have found that Pilots are usually good guys to buy cars from as they know the value of keeping their machines in proper working order. Just picked up a 1996 993 TT from one last week.

Good luck !

A search of "any distance" on Auto trader for 1987 to 1989 Porsche 911's turned up 112 cars granted some of those are late 1989 964 C4's and not the Carrera you're looking for.

Mark021 · 11-03-2008, 04:58 PM

thanks again all,

I'll definately take all the advice I can get and be very thankful for it. I have actually dealt with a pilot or two in the past and even bought a boat from one and had to withstand the 2 hour mainenance lecture before he would let me haul the thing home so I appreciate the comment on pilots and their obsessive maintenance nature. I guess it's a bigger problem when something dies at 30,000 ft and it's ingrained in them.

I admit I'm in hopes that the easy money inflation and consequent collapse will also effect some other over inflated markets (LIKE 20 YEAR OLD VOLKSWAGONS). Like I said, I want a car to drive. The boat the pilot sold me, engine was immacualte, sails and brightwork were pristine and the cushions were shot and it needed the deck painted... it's like he said, the best boat is the one you sail, not the one that sits in a slip.

I just hope the car flipping cannibals are overwhelmed with inventory they've priced out of the market and are not going to be chasing every decent 911 that comes out of hibernation over the next year or two... the best 911 is the one you drive.

trader220 · 11-03-2008, 05:35 PM

The resellers, at least the good ones dont have huge inventories.

Mark021 · 09:24 PM

tired

RacerX1166 · 12:32 PM

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/904470070.html

Mark, just surfing (since I don't feel like working anymore) and came across the above. Seems like a nice prospect.

I wish I could find the link but there was a G50 in NH for sale. Blue and fairly low mileage but had some valance damage. Might be up your alley. If I can find the guy's email, I'll pm you with it.