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Factory whatetail optioned 911sc's

I posted this here as I was not sure it would get seen by enough people in the Paint & Bodywork section.

I'm trying to sort of my whaletail availability info & type.

(besides a sonderwüsche , or any factory retained special built cars . Or cars built for special customers).

In the normal production option scheme of items installed at the factory pre-delivery to dealer or customer (tourist delivery ?).

Is this statement accurate ? :

"The first 911SCs factory fitted with fixed tails were the UK only Sport package and the 1980 USA Weissach Special. The fixed tails became an option only in model year 1981 but really did not start appearing in large numbers until model year 1982." (this would mean available as an option also in 1983).


I know that a 1980 Weissach Edition 911sc , comes with a no 2nd grill whaletail wether optioned with AC or not (maybe they were all built with AC ?) .







Is this the same for a factory whaletail optioned 1981 , 1982 , 1983 911sc ?

No 2nd grill design whaletail ? . Or did they start breaking out the second grill version on AC cars for instance ?

Thx for any help.
Old 10-13-2010, 12:07 PM
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I think the SCs that were optioned from the factory with a tail would have been the Weissach tail as the newer style Carrera tail didn't come out until 1984. The early non-intercooled turbos 75-77, used the 2 grille tail. I believe the 75-77 Carrera used the 2 grille tail as well. There was also a big 2nd grille tail and small 2nd grille tail. I know the bigger grille was on the turbos and was ducted to the fan housing. So the smaller grille unit was probably for a Carrera.

AC didn't matter on the Weissach tail as the condenser is still placed beneath the large grille.

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Last edited by WPOZZZ; 10-13-2010 at 02:14 PM..
Old 10-13-2010, 02:10 PM
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Thx WPOZZZ,

But you really did not read my question.

Where did I say anything about the bolt on to standard steel engine lid , 1984 - 89 whaletails ?

This is specifically concerning 1980 Weissach & 81 - 83 factory optioned tails (and whether it was a 1981- 83 ONLY option for standard 911sc models as per "Simon's Porsche 911sc" website ?. And if they always were 1975 style no 2nd grill units ?).

And as to what's applicable to 1975 - 77 Carrera 2.7 & Carrera 3.0.

That's a whole different discussion.

(However , one thing I do know about 75-77 non Turbo Carrera whaletails. Is that 1975 Carrera 2.7's only came with no 2nd grill whaletails....IF.... they were optioned with a 'Heckspoiler' . It was an option, not a standard feature to be deleted if not wanted. Same with 1976 & 1977 Carrera 3.0 , a heckspoiler was an option - not standard. And if ordered , it came in combination with a front rubber lip spoiler).
Old 10-13-2010, 04:17 PM
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Ratbox,
Here is a picture of the only tail available for the SC cars, not to be confused with the 75-77 and Weissach cars. This unit was a very ugly all Black, all rubber, 3 piece unit.
If your car wasn't a 75-77 Carrera, or a Weissach, this was your only factory tail option. Hope this doesn't burst your bubble and make your original question to meaningless. Do a simple search in the discussion forums for validation. You will find many other pictures of this unit on and off cars, and confirmation of it's period and originality.

Old 10-15-2010, 07:59 AM
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[QUOTE=RatBox;5614050]Thx WPOZZZ,

But you really did not read my question.

Perhaps you should examine both the phrasing and punctuation in your post in order to make your question clear.
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:52 AM
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Thx people,

I thought the question posted was fairly clear but maybe not ?

no matter.

I was busy yesterday, and did not have time to scan and post this....

I was looking through my P. car book collection for something else. And I came across 2 photo's of the 1978 911sc 'Sport' version Porsche UK press car ( UK plaque - 911HUL) in "Porsche 911" by Chris Harvey. Showing this same all rubber bolt-on tail.

My scanner sucks , and this scan is even worse as I did not want to split the books spline. But here it is :








So the info on Simon's 911sc website of whaletails not being available until 1981 MY as an option on 911sc is not accurate. But I would bet that what the case actually is ... is that whaletails were available as an option on all years of 911sc.

And that (I'm guessing here ) possibly by 1980 , the all-rubber unit was not liked and probably not made anymore thus not used. And that if you optioned your 80 - 83 SC with a tail, more often than not , you got the fiberglass with rubber lip unit ? (at least in all markets but the UK , maybe there also ?).

Also, i'm not 100% convinced that even prior , some 911sc's (if optioned with one) might not have been built with the fiberglass with rubber lip whaletail.

The reason I say this is that if you ask UK people , the 'Sport' model was not new there to the 911sc. 1976 & 1977 Carrera 3.0 cars were marketed and sold in both standard & 'Sport' versions in the UK. And I believe if you check, you will find that original UK market Carrera 3.0 Sport's were delivered with both the all rubber tails AND also the Fiberglass with rubber lip tail.

While in other markets the norm on a Carrera 3.0 optioned with a whaletail , is for it to have the fiberglass with rubber lip tail.

So once again, anything being absolute is probably not the case (even with my statement above saying 1975 Carrera 2.7's were always built with no 2nd grill tails. I just mean that , by far , that is the norm. No one can say that a few 2nd grill tails could not have made it onto a few 1975 Carrera's. Maybe on a special build car for a special Factory user / or outside customer - one was used ? Or one of the last cars got one ? Or one day they were in short supply of the normal 1975 tail, so a 2nd grill unit was thrown on ?).


I did not mean to bend anyone the wrong way . I just read that excerpt on Simon's site. And I was curious if it was fact concerning availabilty only for 81-83.

Last edited by RatBox; 10-15-2010 at 11:59 AM..
Old 10-15-2010, 11:11 AM
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I recall the old "one piece rubber" tail as being an option, at least in the US. Not sure where Simon writes his book (many Porsche books are written by Brits and can have different info).

I recall seeing in the US, many an SC equipped (not sure if a "dealer installed" option or a factory option- which is perhaps the real issue of your question) the same tail used on the 3.3L 930. The one with the tall rubber lip.

No ONE person has ever covered every vagarie in the Porsche production world correctly.. and this is from a company that actually kept records, unlike Ferrari or Lamborghini where records were apparently, "not allowed"
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:25 PM
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I went and looked at the PET catalogs to try to figure this out . I checked all three : US , DE , & UK - just to see if there were any differences in the listings between these 3 country catalog's.

It seems both car-reras & racer were correct to varying degrees if the parts catalogs are accurate.


And WPOZZZ , I APOLOGIZE , even though you did not have it right. It was ME that was the one not reading YOUR post closely enough (not vice versa) because my responce to you didn't even relate to what you stated. You never mentioned 3.3 tails !

Although strangely enough ( no matter how ugly on a narrow body) , like racer surmised , they were actually an option on 78- 83 911sc. US,UK,DE catalog notes: no year listed / means aplicable to all years catalog covers (1978 - 1983 MY).


The all-rubber Polyurethane bolt-on tails ( "PU - Heckspoiler" , in DE notes) were also available (from 1978 - 80 MY only however). US, UK , DE notes : -80 / means up to 1980 MY.

And ( AS PER Catalog's ) the 1975 single grill Tail (Spoilerdeckel : F-glass main piece / 911 512 010 07 , Heckspoiler: rubber lip for the prior piece / 911 512 019 00) was the tail ONLY for the 1980 MY U.S. only Weissach model . US & UK catalog notes : +80 / means 80 MY only , also noted "special model -USA-" . DE catalog notes : +80 , "Sondermodell -USA-" .

The 1976-77 2nd grill Carrera 3.0 / 1975-77 930 version tail was not used at all during 78 - 83 . It is not listed period in this catalog. Nor any of the 2nd grill or air funnel pieces that are part of it. The images of these pieces are even removed from the standard diagram # 803-10 . While the 1975-77 Turbo & 1974-77 911 catalogs clearly shows them in the same 803-10 diagram.

Now as I said , this is just as per the parts catalogs. Theres always a possibility that some bending of procedure could have happened .

But it seems this was the way it was worldwide for 911sc.

The only question I still have is how you would differentiate between the 3.3 tail & the all-Poly , if pre-ordering your car built with F & R spoilers option. As the only 'M Nummern' I find for this option (english: F & R spoilers , German: mit Bug- und Heckspoiler) was M473 . And I was able to determine that this is the 3.3 style normally.

And obviously you cannot option a 3.3 930 car with spoilers as they are standard equipment . Thus M473 is not applicable to a 930. Yet it is listed in the 78-83 catalog M options list.

So again from the M option system , there seems to be no M option number for the all Polyurethane tail. At least not in the parts catalogs.

I think in DE from 1978 to 80 MY , there was also a 'Sport Version' of the 911sc , like there was in the UK. And if you got this version (which included bilstein sport dampers also, & I believe the 16" fuchs) you got the all-Poly tail with front lip spoiler with that package . And if you ordered a standard 911sc with option M473, it was the 3.3 Turbo tail with front lip spoiler.

In the US , I can not imagine how it was handled . As i've never heard of a Sport version being marketed in the US. My thoughts are that the Poly tail did not really come here much ? (although racer says he remembers it , but does that mean factory installed ? Or you just saw some on cars ?).

Anyway, that's how it lays out from the notes & legend in the parts catalogs.


In general, from what I can guess. During 1978 - 83 in the US , I don't think alot of people were special ordering 911sc's ahead of time to be built to order. I think US dealers were just ordering alot of Fuchs & AC optioned cars in color combo's that they thought would be decent sellers. So the spoilers as an original BUILD option on a 911sc , probably did not happen alot on US cars. Most US cars with them are probably add on , at dealers after purchase or privately.

To know for certain , some dealers / salesmen / or original pre-order car owners (in any country) that can remember are the only ones who will really know (or people with original paperwork on a spoilers optioned car). Unless someone can come up with some old options catalogs / sales catalogs (for US or ROW all years , or UK 81-83) which explain, and maybe show some factory promotional photo's with tails.

Last edited by RatBox; 10-16-2010 at 08:39 PM..
Old 10-16-2010, 08:12 PM
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No harm, no foul.

If you are looking for one of those rubber tails, I think my friend may have one at his shop. However, I'd pass as that is one heavy tail and it is ugly.
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Last edited by WPOZZZ; 10-16-2010 at 08:43 PM..
Old 10-16-2010, 08:31 PM
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I would also hypothesize that US dealers were not getting heavy interest in the All Black rubber tail, especially on non-black cars. Hence a push to equipe US cars (again, either via dealer or factory code) with the 930 style rear tray. IIRC, many an SC in the US had its 16" fuchs "dealer installed" as well. The influence for these might also be traceable in small amount, to the popularity of Gray market cars by 1980 or so and peaking by 1985-86.

Perhaps similar to Subarus use of "Port Installed Options", perhaps the US porsche dealer chain was using similar processes.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:41 PM
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