"911" - the tv show!

[christiandk]

The current hyped market where everyone wants to buy and find a vintage 911 could very well be a tv show like "Storage Wars".

The tv show would have everything to attract viewers:

Interesting cars, (over)bidding at auctions, people who know what they talk about, people who think they know what they talk about, crazy hillbilly hoarders, drama, tragidies and Europeans trying to buy every car sight unseen.

What we do need is hot models....hmmmmmmmm where do they fit in!

Edit - I claim the copyright.

[comintern]

Don't forget the sleazy dealers, the barn-find, the flipper and the widow who does not know how much the '73 911s is worth!

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by comintern

Don't forget the sleazy dealers, the barn-find, the flipper and the widow who does not know how much the '73 911s is worth!

And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

Exactly.

[brock911]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

Agreed... how could we forget, we are reminded often enough?

[Unobtanium-inc]

We've seen more than a few crazy hillbilly hoarders over the years. But those are the only people nutty enough to hold onto a field full of rare early Porsches for 20 years while they eat Ramen in the living room of their trailer! -- Matt

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

It's not surprising that someone might be a little butt-hurt that flippers aren't well-respected.

Imagine that - predators looking to pad their wallets aren't held up as paragons. Whoda thunk it?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It's not surprising that someone might be a little butt-hurt that flippers aren't well-respected.

Imagine that - predators looking to pad their wallets aren't held up as paragons. Whoda thunk it?

So the fact that I started a business dealing in used Porsches and parts makes me a predator? I'm sure there's a downside to every business venture -- unfair overseas labor, selling unhealthy food to unwary Americans, charging $25 to carry a bag onto an airplane -- the list could go on forever.

I really resent people like you who are always on the attack. Is paying for my two kids' preschool what you refer to as "padding my wallet?" We all go to work, we all do a job. Unobtanium sells hard to find parts based on market prices. We've bought loads of parts over the years from people who are happy to sell it all at once at 60 cents on the dollar. On the other side, you can buy a part from us with a single phone call and get an iron-clad guarantee that we will refund your money if you aren't happy with the part. Predatory?

So I reiterate: Yes, I am a capitalist who embraces the idea of buying low and selling higher. No, I don't think there should be a common parts bin for everyone in the commune to pull from as they need it, free of charge. I think if people like you took the time to think about the fact that this is a business that we started from scratch in order to do what everyone else wants to do -- feed our families, own a house, drive cars -- you would be less spiteful. -- Matt

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

So the fact that I started a business dealing in used Porsches and parts makes me a predator? I'm sure there's a downside to every business venture -- unfair overseas labor, selling unhealthy food to unwary Americans, charging $25 to carry a bag onto an airplane -- the list could go on forever.

I really resent people like you who are always on the attack. Is paying for my two kids' preschool what you refer to as "padding my wallet?" We all go to work, we all do a job. Unobtanium sells hard to find parts based on market prices. We've bought loads of parts over the years from people who are happy to sell it all at once at 60 cents on the dollar. On the other side, you can buy a part from us with a single phone call and get an iron-clad guarantee that we will refund your money if you aren't happy with the part. Predatory?

So I reiterate: Yes, I am a capitalist who embraces the idea of buying low and selling higher. No, I don't think there should be a common parts bin for everyone in the commune to pull from as they need it, free of charge. I think if people like you took the time to think about the fact that this is a business that we started from scratch in order to do what everyone else wants to do -- feed our families, own a house, drive cars -- you would be less spiteful. -- Matt

I'm really crying over your plight. Shedding real tears of saddness about how without flipping, your poor kids wouldn't have new shoes. Literally taking food out of your family's mouth.

My lack of respect for flippers and predators who use an enthusiast website to extract arbitrage from the unsuspecting and unwary I have zero apology for. For those folks piggy-backing on Wayne's success in drawing Porsche enthusiasts, I have slightly less contempt - but curbstoners and othe dishonest folks shouldn't expect any respect, should they?

For those folks who are actually providing a service, and who are licensed car or parts resellers and clearly identify themselves as such, I have always said that if they are playing by the rules set down, they have every right to be here. For everyone who is honest in their dealings in the PP Marketplace, I have no issue. For those who omit facts and details in order to extract the greatest amount of profit, I have scorn. Because those folks are being fundamentally dishonest. Which, if you'll pay attention for a moment, has nothing to do with any particular economic system. It has everyhting to do with moral framework.

I understand also that it's a lot of fun to mischaracterize someone's position in order to attack some sort of caricature rather than the person's actual position. It's a fun sport, especially on the internet, where the stakes are really small. But if you'd lie about small stuff like that, I wonder what you'd lie about in real life? In your business dealings? Something to think about.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Eric - I think when you begin your comment with pointed sarcasm (as you did) and throw words like "predator" and "padding your wallet" around, you've done plenty to load the discussion. Our business dealings are beyond reproach, I'll raise that flag anywhere we go. All of this talk of extracting arbitrage from the unwary is pointless. If a wholesaler buys a car from us and "flips" it to his customer for profit, do I then become the unsuspecting and unwary? Or did I do my own diligence value-wise and make a decision on what I would sell it for? Surely it's the latter.

And this "enthusiast website" you refer to? It's drawing thousands of customers to a very successful parts business that Wayne worked his tail off to build. The problem with your argument and all similar arguments I've seen is their failure to recognize that Porsches, by design, are a luxury item, and as such there is no way to separate the Porsche from the fact that it's a commodity, and one enjoyed by people with disposable income.

I'm relieved to see that I fall into the category of folks who are providing a real service and clearly identify ourselves as such. I'll sit back now and prepare myself for more sarcastic comments about my family, or my business. If you want some real material, you should start in on my dog. She's a total mess.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Eric - I think when you begin your comment with pointed sarcasm (as you did) and throw words like "predator" and "padding your wallet" around, you've done plenty to load the discussion.

Kinda like using the word "communist", I suppose? Maybe the term "self-righteous" rings a bell?

As for the rest, I don't care how anyone justifies their dishonesty to themselves. Ethical behavior is ethical in all pursuits, no matter what the circumstance. Unethical behavior is wrong in all circumstances. If you're being honest in your dealings, then my comments shouldn't mean anything to you, since they aren't addressed to you. And never have been.

In the future, please don't presume to lecture me about offering up terms that are loaded.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

So the fact that I started a business dealing in used Porsches and parts makes me a predator? I'm sure there's a downside to every business venture -- unfair overseas labor, selling unhealthy food to unwary Americans, charging $25 to carry a bag onto an airplane -- the list could go on forever.

I really resent people like you who are always on the attack. Is paying for my two kids' preschool what you refer to as "padding my wallet?" We all go to work, we all do a job. Unobtanium sells hard to find parts based on market prices. We've bought loads of parts over the years from people who are happy to sell it all at once at 60 cents on the dollar. On the other side, you can buy a part from us with a single phone call and get an iron-clad guarantee that we will refund your money if you aren't happy with the part. Predatory?

So I reiterate: Yes, I am a capitalist who embraces the idea of buying low and selling higher. No, I don't think there should be a common parts bin for everyone in the commune to pull from as they need it, free of charge. I think if people like you took the time to think about the fact that this is a business that we started from scratch in order to do what everyone else wants to do -- feed our families, own a house, drive cars -- you would be less spiteful. -- Matt

Yuuuup!
Look up David hester and some of you Will relate.......no offence. Some here are porsche entusiasts and some are interested In porsches to make a Buck.

There should be room for
us all....burry the hatchet or join the tv show.......

Cheers
Christian

[wgwollet]

Economics 101......there is a product or service for sell, buyer and seller agree......so what's the problem?

This site is big enough for all. Wayne is a smart man starting this Forum. I have bought thousands of dollars of parts for my Porsches from Pelican Parts and will continue. Currently rebuilding a 911 T engine down to the split case. You can imagine what parts are needed. Yes, I shop parts, I would be a fool not to, new and used.

This Forum is not to badger people but to enjoy the cars, weather it's selling, buying, flipping, parts chasing, learning, whatever...who cares...in fact it's almost impossible to buy a car on Porsche Forums at a price to flip....people are not stupid and most Porsche people are very savvy and knowledgable.

Just my thoughts...thanks

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by wgwollet

in fact it's almost impossible to buy a car on Porsche Forums at a price to flip

LOL. If that's what you think, then you haven't been paying attention.

And I disagree that there is "room for all". I have no room for dishonest sellers or buyers. And believe it or not, those folks exist in the Marketplace.

[Unobtanium-inc]

As the other brother in Unobtanium I feel the need to point out something no one has touched on. I think all the re-seller haters are forgetting that guys like us work our arse's off getting cars that sometimes "aren't for sale." I recently took a trip down south and loaded a truck with 356's, every car you see on this truck was "not for sale".
A few of these cars had been sitting since the 60s. So by working a fair deal with the seller's, (yes, both seller's were well aware what the cars were worth and a fair deal was struck based on personal relationships and buying in bulk) this trip netted 12 356's that are now available to people that want a 356 restoration, rather than collecting dust or rusting away outside. So in this case without the flipper there would be 12 less cars for the community to have, and if any of you have been looking for a 356 project, you know how hard it is to find one.
If you want to read the whole story, I wrote it up for the 356 Registry magazine in the current issue, so it makes for interesting reading for the community too, a win-win. So the next time you curse the flipper, remember that he is the one knocking on the doors and turning over the rocks. As I write this I am on a 3 state buying trip, so far I have filled half a trailer with parts that haven't seen the light of day since the late 50's, parts you won't find, unless guys like me go find them. Oh, and the car on the trailer, a matching #s 67S, that wasn't for sale, bet the new owner is happy that Matt chased that car.
---Adam

[comintern]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

Fair enough.

However, you can't argue that car sales/service people have a bad reputation in general. And I would go so far as to say its well earned. I would rate my personal experience over 35 years with car people as between going to the dentist and looking at the bond issue list on my property tax bill.

Albeit I am very happy with my current mechanic.

[wgwollet]

Fair enough

LOL. If that's what you think, then you haven't been paying attention. (from Eric)

Attention.......show me something you think is a GOOD DEAL, remember Econmics 101, there is a buyer and a seller, not all people call something a good deal or a bad deal, it's in the beholder...

Who is talking about dishonest buyers and sellers? YOU ARE NOT ME. Maybe you got taken but as everyone knows you must be knowleable in buying a car.....THAT'S ANY CAR NOT JUST PORSCHES....yes there are dishonest people tell me something I do not already know.

Later

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

As the other brother in Unobtanium I feel the need to point out something no one has touched on. I think all the re-seller haters are forgetting that guys like us work our arse's off getting cars that sometimes "aren't for sale."

No, this *has* been discussed before. And I will repeat what was said by more than one person - moving generally unavailable cars into the wider world for purchase by folks is a worthy thing. And there is generally a great deal of risk and exposure doing that. Along with a significant opportunity cost when you've got tens or even one hundred thousand dollars tied up in very old cars that may or may not be hitting on the current market.

Making an unavailable item available *should* be rewarded. Taking a generally availbe item from a large marketplace to a smaller one, taking advantage of the enthusiast nature of the small market, and doing nothing else except adding a mark-up, while taking advantage of the infrastructure provided by someone else? Different story.

But in order to have learned this, you would have had to read other threads. And recapitulating all that has been written before might be tiresome to everyone. Your brother was unwise to mis-characterize my position, and it is silly to take this discussion as being a black/white binary choice between two diametrically opposed philosophies. It never has been that way.

[wgwollet]

Eric, I understand your position.

Thank You

[1968SWTs]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Originally Posted by comintern
Don't forget the sleazy dealers, the barn-find, the flipper and the widow who does not know how much the '73 911s is worth!


And don't forget the self-righteous communist who thinks nobody should buy something and sell it for more than they paid for it.

I agree with Comintern about those taking advantage of widows. Unobtanium would never do that - too much integrity. I did see a buyer boasting online about how they got a 356A for $2,000 from a widow and then sell immediately for $30K. I spoke with another East coast dealer who boasted about getting a 73 911s from a farmer's widow for $1500. I feel sorry for the widows. None of the "flippers" online here would do that as they can relate to the dead guy :-)