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Perfect flip?

**81 911sc**

New detailed pictures but none of the side with the little nick in it and a bottle of amor all.

Voila......25K will be wired from Germany shortly!
Old 02-25-2014, 11:43 PM
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six months ago I would have said that this is a parts car. Probably still is with a salvage title.

but now it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone fixed this car and sold it on. Wouldn't call that a flip, though.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by christiandk View Post
Perfect flip?

**81 911sc**

New detailed pictures but none of the side with the little nick in it and a bottle of amor all.

Voila......25K will be wired from Germany shortly!
Priced too high to flip. Salvage title means this car maybe only get 50% of market value..plus it has high mileage already. It would be worth teens/low 20s without the salvage title.. may take $5k or more to repair..I think you'd lose money trying to flip this unless you own a body shop..
Old 02-26-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck View Post
Priced too high to flip. Salvage title means this car maybe only get 50% of market value..plus it has high mileage already. It would be worth teens/low 20s without the salvage title.. may take $5k or more to repair..I think you'd lose money trying to flip this unless you own a body shop..
That wouldn't be a flip. That would be a value added resale. There's a huge difference.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
That wouldn't be a flip. That would be a value added resale. There's a huge difference.
Exactly.

And you are not getting $20k for a salvage 911SC targa unless you wash the title and find the most clueless punter in the market. Doesn't mean someone won't try, though.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:46 PM
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20k flip

delete

Last edited by 6300 RPMs; 02-27-2014 at 04:55 PM..
Old 02-27-2014, 04:22 PM
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I would like to add that not all dealers are "flippers" many are guys that have spent a lot of money and have invested time, sweat and tears...a la Paul Kramer at Autokennel. He is a friend of mine and he sells cars for a profit but imagine that next time you walk into starbucks for the $5 Venti Latte that cost 30cents.

Flipping without a dealership is always going to happen but with the Porsche Marque it is becoming a rarity. We pay for expertise and service in almost every aspect of life yet nobody wants a dealer to make a buck.

License, bond, classes, location, insurance...it all costs a lot more than anyone here would imagine.

Just 2 cents since I have been following forum for a while without comment

Jason
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:35 PM
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Dealers are dealers. Flippers don't generally have a dealer's license. Or insurance. Or a showroom.
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by uberklasse View Post
I would like to add that not all dealers are "flippers" many are guys that have spent a lot of money and have invested time, sweat and tears...a la Paul Kramer at Autokennel. He is a friend of mine and he sells cars for a profit but imagine that next time you walk into starbucks for the $5 Venti Latte that cost 30cents.

Flipping without a dealership is always going to happen but with the Porsche Marque it is becoming a rarity. We pay for expertise and service in almost every aspect of life yet nobody wants a dealer to make a buck.

License, bond, classes, location, insurance...it all costs a lot more than anyone here would imagine.

Just 2 cents since I have been following forum for a while without comment

Jason
Priceless, Jason. Just took a look at your website.
Old 03-11-2014, 01:42 PM
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Exactly. I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes over 14 years and guess what...don't "flip" I am a collector and drive and RACE everything I own.

Paul still sells my cars for me. I have a job that requires 60-70 hours a week and my licensed and bonded dealership has never had one problem. In fact, I sold a 996 to a member of the air force..it had engine failure AFTER he completed deal and drove. He did his own PPI because he was paranoid. I suggested Tony Callas and a number of other independents. He took that car to some random guy not on my list....I paid for a new engine rebuild!! I lost a ton of money on that deal but kept my business in perfect standing. This post really should be about people without licenses that buy and flip a car without adding any value.

In CA we even have a form to have people sign opting out of a retun (complicated but protects the buyer, not the seller)
I am not hiding anything...I own a CA licensed dealership and get great satisfaction from helping friends into Porsche ownership.
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:57 PM
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I don't have a problem with dealers. I don't really like flippers though. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I am a free market enthusiest, but I just don't like them. My perogitive. I'd rather that "great deal" on craigslist go to an enthusiest on the hunt than somebody trying to make a few bux.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by uberklasse View Post
Exactly. I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes over 14 years and guess what...don't "flip" I am a collector and drive and RACE everything I own.

Paul still sells my cars for me. I have a job that requires 60-70 hours a week and my licensed and bonded dealership has never had one problem. In fact, I sold a 996 to a member of the air force..it had engine failure AFTER he completed deal and drove. He did his own PPI because he was paranoid. I suggested Tony Callas and a number of other independents. He took that car to some random guy not on my list....I paid for a new engine rebuild!! I lost a ton of money on that deal but kept my business in perfect standing. This post really should be about people without licenses that buy and flip a car without adding any value.

In CA we even have a form to have people sign opting out of a retun (complicated but protects the buyer, not the seller)
I am not hiding anything...I own a CA licensed dealership and get great satisfaction from helping friends into Porsche ownership.
You are talking about curbstoning, not really flipping per se.

A licensed dealer can still flip a car. You see some repost ads with higher prices and copied pictures before even taking possession of the car.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:09 PM
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Agreed but to sell legally there still is a lot that goes into...well maybe not the armor all guys.
Porsche selling done right is not for the faint of heart. A lot goes into the research, history and behind the scenes ie. safety checks, transport and insurance for test drives not to mention storing and the tireless questions and time robbers.

The guy that "finds" a car and takes the picture while still in the driveway is comical but I am sure he wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) present it that way.

I have done my fair share of VIN searches but that is usually to find out what they paid for a car that I wanted...more info ='s more leverage!

I am all for outing "flippers" and this post should be a resource for those looking and trying to gauge the market.

Jason
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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Porsche selling done right is not for the faint of heart. A lot goes into the research, history and behind the scenes ie. safety checks, transport and insurance for test drives not to mention storing and the tireless questions and time robbers.
Unfortunately, the car industry is more about lending money and washing cars than actually buying and selling them or adding value. Not saying good dealers don't exist. But in 25 years of buying and selling cars I have had precious few experiences that were positive. Most were not dishonest -- just irritating -- buying a car from a salesman who knows less about it than I do, and doing the kabuki dance with his manager -- who mainly wants to "sell" me financing.

I have actually considered doing it when I "retire" but I expect I would lose money because I am not interested in mass volume or financing, and it takes a long time to break into the higher end classic car business -- which tends to be more credible.

You bemoan the operating costs of being a dealer -- bonds, physical lot costs, etc -- but the NADA has helped set those market conditions by carving out a market niche for its members, and protecting its wholesale-retail business model. The barriers to market entry are intentionally high to protect dealer turf.

The whole industry needs to be rebooted with laws that reflect the realities of the Internet and the modern marketplace. Good luck with that, though. Too many vested interests in protecting the middlemen.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:39 PM
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I have to agree with uberklasse.
If their has been no added value then its flipping otherwise it's just buying & selling.

A lot of the added value is in the parts put into the cars but no one seems to account for the time put into them. Down here in Oz. you are looking at at least $65/hr in labour to have a car restored/improved.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:57 PM
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$65/hr is cheap.
Old 03-11-2014, 04:09 PM
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Some of you might enjoy this story.

Found a '72 T coupe on Samba. It was horribly mutilated and unrecognizable as a '72. It was $12.5K asking, and I calculated that if I did everything right and was super lucky, I'd only have to put an additional $22K into it to make it right. Called the guy, agreed without haggling and Paypal'ed a deposit with the rest to follow. Then started researching transport from TX to CA. Later the same day, the guy calls me back and says 'someone' has told him the car is worth $19K and he is reneging on the deal. What can I do? Days later, the Samba ad reappears: all pictures the same and the same copy, but the car is being sold from North Carolina... it just happens to (still) be in TX. Asking price is $19K.

So this is the ultimate flipper move: the new guy somehow secures rights to sell the car, leaves it in the possession of the original seller and tries for more money without ever even seeing it.

Had I gotten the car, it would have taken at least a year and a half to put it right. But I'd likely have made a few bucks on it for my investor.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techweenie View Post
Some of you might enjoy this story.

Found a '72 T coupe on Samba. It was horribly mutilated and unrecognizable as a '72. It was $12.5K asking, and I calculated that if I did everything right and was super lucky, I'd only have to put an additional $22K into it to make it right. Called the guy, agreed without haggling and Paypal'ed a deposit with the rest to follow. Then started researching transport from TX to CA. Later the same day, the guy calls me back and says 'someone' has told him the car is worth $19K and he is reneging on the deal. What can I do? Days later, the Samba ad reappears: all pictures the same and the same copy, but the car is being sold from North Carolina... it just happens to (still) be in TX. Asking price is $19K.

So this is the ultimate flipper move: the new guy somehow secures rights to sell the car, leaves it in the possession of the original seller and tries for more money without ever even seeing it.

Had I gotten the car, it would have taken at least a year and a half to put it right. But I'd likely have made a few bucks on it for my investor.
I also wanted that car when it was on Texas.
I also made the call
I also didn't get it


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Old 03-11-2014, 05:32 PM
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That's the one. The big killer was that someone had removed the '72 oil system, and that was going to be a fortune to put back in place. The big plus was that the car was born Conda Green.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:37 PM
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Ahhhhhhhh…..



72 Conda green……….



Ohhh well… There is always another porsche.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:40 PM
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