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-   -   Timeframe.... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/798973-timeframe.html)

PushingMyLuck 03-01-2014 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson (Post 7938859)
Rubbish. There are still reasonable sellers out there who will take a refundable deposit for a day while the PPI is done.

In fact these days there are so many scumbags trying to capitalize on the market I wouldn't deal with anyone who didn't want me to get a PPI. Probably hiding something.

I don't know if this assumption is accurate. The simple fact is that the seller will get multiple cash offers before the end of the week, if the car is priced right. So, why should he bother with an OCD buyer who wants a PPI? If I had a perfect 911 to sell, and had 3 cash offers, and one insisted on a PPI, I would just take the other offer. With the internet, most 911 buyers are now remote buyers.

Also I was told explicitly by one scumbag flipper douchebag that he's ok with a PPI, but he will not negotiate price after the PPI, regardless of what the PPI said. What this means is that he's used to buyers using the PPI to negotiate the price down. If you have 3 other cash buyers, why bother what that?

Not wanting a PPI can simply mean that seller has a killer car that many people want. You will miss out on the best cars with your attitude, b/c most buyers do not bother with a PPI, and will beat you to the punch.

Matt Monson 03-01-2014 08:07 PM

How many Porsches have you bought?

I've personally owned 13 and bought and sold another several dozen with other people's money. Your assumptions about the average seller are poorly founded. Most sellers I encounter want to make sure their car is going to a good home first and bottom line dollar second.

CountD 03-01-2014 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfadoc (Post 7937134)
Kind of on a whim I posted a "911 wanted" ad on my local craigslist this past fall. It produced what I consider to be a pretty sweet deal on an SC an hour and a half from home. For details on the specific car, see my post "Weissach value" earlier this week in this sub-forum. !

Your car is truly sweet - you never know what a local want ad will get you, especially if you are up front and honest. People want to see their cars go to a good home,

RacerX1166 03-02-2014 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck (Post 7939001)
I don't know if this assumption is accurate. The simple fact is that the seller will get multiple cash offers before the end of the week, if the car is priced right. So, why should he bother with an OCD buyer who wants a PPI? If I had a perfect 911 to sell, and had 3 cash offers, and one insisted on a PPI, I would just take the other offer. With the internet, most 911 buyers are now remote buyers.

Also I was told explicitly by one scumbag flipper douchebag that he's ok with a PPI, but he will not negotiate price after the PPI, regardless of what the PPI said. What this means is that he's used to buyers using the PPI to negotiate the price down. If you have 3 other cash buyers, why bother what that?

Not wanting a PPI can simply mean that seller has a killer car that many people want. You will miss out on the best cars with your attitude, b/c most buyers do not bother with a PPI, and will beat you to the punch.

Unless the seller is a scumbag, once you agree on a price, the car is yours to do a PPI. I bought my 993 when air cooled prices started to explode. The seller accepted my offer and I sent the car for a PPI. In the meantime, he received higher offers and told me so. I told him that if he was okay with selling the car out from underneath me, it was his conscience he'd have to deal with.

I had the same experience when I sold my 89. I accepted a reasonable offer from some dude on this board but higher offers rolled in. The extra money would have been nice but not at the expense of my integrity.

Contrast that with a dealer whose name rhymes with Tim Holt. I bought my first Porsche from said dealer. He got a nice midnight blue 993, which was the color I really wanted. I asked what he wanted for the car and he came back with a surprisingly reasonable price. Probably the result of knowing me as a genuine buyer. Told him I wanted the car in that range. Anyway, long story short, he dragged his feet with me and sold the car to another buyer at a higher price.

For those who say a PPI isn't feasible, I'd love to hear their own personal stories. Otherwise, perhaps they could refrain from sharing baseless opinions.

Halm 03-02-2014 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck (Post 7939001)
I don't know if this assumption is accurate. The simple fact is that the seller will get multiple cash offers before the end of the week, if the car is priced right. So, why should he bother with an OCD buyer who wants a PPI?

Like Matt, I have bought and sold 12 Porsche's over the last 40 years. The bottom line is CASH TALKS, BULL $HIT WALKS.

I take the time to talk adnauseaum to potential buyers. When I accept an offer, I always expect a deposit. I allow appropriate time for it to arrive. I also keep a list of other potential buyers during the time I strike a deal and the deposit arrives. If it does not come as promised, I move on the next potential buyer.

Another thing I do is make sure the buyer and I are very clear on what he expects from the PPI. If I tell him oil is leaking from a return tube and the PPI confirms that, don't expect me to adjust the price because oil is leaking from a return tube. On the other hand, if I say the engine is tight and runs great but a leak down test shows numbers all over the place, then YES, we need to either adjust the price or return the deposit.

In short, it is my opinion that you don't have a deal until cash changes hands. Until then, both parties are free to do as they wish.

Icepack 03-02-2014 07:40 PM

I don’t think you can really put a timeline on it. Once you get serious enough to start looking at cars, it’s a function of how long it takes until you’ve seen enough cars to become a confident knowledgeable buyer. Then, as a confident knowledgeable buyer, it’s a function of how many cars you can look at before you find the right one. So start looking at cars: SC’s, 915’s, even those nasty red ones!

I looked casually for a year then seriously for two years before buying my car. I looked at 12-15 cars, all 3.2s. The best cars I looked at were the first (I didn’t know it at the time) and the last (obviously!).

Cast a big net: use a site like Autotempest and set up a search. Don’t discount Ebay and Craigslist. Some cars show up in newspaper classifieds and at professional estate sales and nowhere else.

Don’t discount dealers. That’s an opportunity to see and drive cars without an emotionally involved seller. But in your price range you don’t want to pay a dealer markup.

Local cars are easy. Look at and drive as many as you can. See what’s out there. Learn to filter out the crap yourself before you pay for a PPI.

Travel at least a little bit if you can. If you travel for work or vacation try to see some cars at the same time.

Talk to owners/sellers. Some of them are very informed and some are not. Talk to the guy who has maintained the car. Talk to your local Indie mechanic. You’ll learn a lot.

Look through receipts. See for yourself what the big ticket items are that you’re trying to avoid buying into.

In many parts of the country these are summer toys. They are put away in the fall and come back out in the spring. More cars come on the market in the spring, but fall pricing may be better.

Try to keep your emotions out of it. Even if you miss out on one car due to indecision there are other cars out there. You should be comfortable with the car you’re buying.

Be prepared to move quickly on the right car: have cash in hand, financing, liquid assets, however you plan to do it. The good deals don’t last long.

Enjoy the search!

COLB 03-03-2014 04:43 AM

Quote:

Another thing I do is make sure the buyer and I are very clear on what he expects from the PPI. If I tell him oil is leaking from a return tube and the PPI confirms that, don't expect me to adjust the price because oil is leaking from a return tube. On the other hand, if I say the engine is tight and runs great but a leak down test shows numbers all over the place, then YES, we need to either adjust the price or return the deposit.
This is a great point, and really good advice. Full disclosure prevents most PPI issues. If you are playing fast & loose with the truth, or just don't know the true condition of your car, a PPI will definitely cause some angst between buyer & seller.

There are a lot of "first time" buyers dipping a toe into the market -- and if they are not familiar with the marque, or with the issues involved with any 25-40 year old car, expectation management is important -- and is best done before a PPI.

Bash 03-03-2014 07:11 AM

Everyone,
well it's been a few days since I checked this post-I do have a life & family so although I predicted there would be some responses that would be just BS, for the most part I thank everyone.
A little back ground. I have read just about all I can find. Would not consider purchasing a 911 without getting to know the owner, will always do a PPI & see this as more as an investment in my family than anything else. There are a lot of ways that $20K-or $25 once all repairs are done can buy happiness!
Have been really close to an 87 targa in NC from a great owner who I had a ongoing dialog. Due to my work schedule & ice storms, someone else snapped it up, huge bummer. The owner was genuinely hurt when he told me, something that reaffirms the process & tact I am taking.
Although being a realist I know that my search will be long & I may have to spend a little more for the right car & have there is NOTHING wrong with an SC!
Thanks for all the advice, will defiantly try to attend local events when I can-sorry this weekend I am in the Charleston Wine & Food event.
Another question...
If a seller is "not quite sure if he wants to sell it" does anyone have any tricks/history to help persuade ( not counting more cash)
b

Matt Monson 03-03-2014 07:48 AM

Persistence. If, over time they come to realize you want that exact car then they may sell it to you. You just have to find a balance between being a pest that they want to go away and an available and interested buyer.

I've got my eye on a 356B coupe in a barn. Been there for 15 years. I don't ask the owner about it more than once every six months.

Bash 03-03-2014 07:52 AM

Matt,
hard not to be a pest when you are really interested, especially given all the vultures out there.
Still kicking myself that I did not make it too see the car in NC.
Bash

TV74911S 03-03-2014 09:25 AM

Your edge will be in going the extra mile locally and uncovering those cars that aren't being advertised widely (or at all.) Get friendly with the local PCA chapter and indie Porsche shops. The indies in particular have an ear to the ground when it comes to cars about to be put up for sale. Many sell cars as a side business as well and don't do much - if any - advertising anywhere.

I talked about the use of CL in an earlier post. I wouldn't discount using it. A collector I know has been selling off his cars via CL for the past two years including at least four or five 964s.

You never know what you can find by doing a bit of digging.

LEAKYSEALS951 03-03-2014 10:30 AM

Sorry about "the one that got away":mad: That happened more than once in my recent search. Arghhh!!!!

TV74911s is right... One of the first things I did was drop by the local p-car shops and asked if there were any customers who were currently selling cars. Not only did they give leads, when I eventually spoke with the customers and given permission, I was allowed full access to the local shop's service history of those cars, one of which even had recent leak down results!

As for gaining trust /not annoying owners who might not even be actively selling, it's basic people skills and reading people. Stuff you already have. You need to use your limited time to establish enough of an impression as that you are the perfect new home for their car, and perfect potential buyer should they decide to sell.

Good luck, you'll get one!
Ron

Matt Monson 03-03-2014 10:32 AM

Shops hear about a lot of cars that might be for sale. That's how I got my '68T. Carbs were gunked up from sitting and they didn't want to pay to repair it. I got the car for a song.

Stonestreet 03-03-2014 12:47 PM

Tons of good advice here when you filter out the obvious nonsense.

I think you can find the car and if you're comfortable maybe stretching to 25 for sorting one out, then you should be fine. I wouldn't necessarily wait for the sake of waiting or to prove that you have done your diligence and homework. If the right one shows up tomorrow, jump on it.

I bought mine not long after joining PP, and have absolutely no regrets. Any surprise costs of ownership can be rationalized with very little effort, and if it all seems to much, the odds of getting out of ownership without losing money on the car are very good.

Marc

Bash 03-04-2014 05:22 AM

Everyone,
I must concur, great advice if filtered.
Patience is a virtue.
Has anyone had any success joining the quest program through PCA? At the very least it would better the "education" no? $40 doesn't seem that bad...
b

dienstuhr 03-04-2014 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash (Post 7943066)
Everyone,
I must concur, great advice if filtered.
Patience is a virtue.
Has anyone had any success joining the quest program through PCA? At the very least it would better the "education" no? $40 doesn't seem that bad...
b

I joined "Quest". $40 is for a six-month membership and I think they may credit you if you want to extend it into a normal membership - which only costs a touch more for a whole year - but you can't join unless you're an owner.

I don't recall finding a whole lot of value in joining just to look for a car. PCA-owned cars tend to be enthusiast owned (which is good) but also enthusiast-priced (which may not be so good)...

What I'd do is to hook up informally with the PCA region local to you and have them put out feelers for cars for sale. I think most membership chairs would be more than willing to do this since it means they'll have a new member once you finally find your car. And it won't cost you 40 bucks either.

Cheers

d.

Type911 03-04-2014 12:55 PM

All great advice. As others have said, if you are looking, don't just look, be ready to buy. The air-cooled market is moving too quick to just look.

My first 911 I wanted had to be a coupe, in red or black. I ended up with a light blue metallic Targa instead. Car was too good to pass up and I found out how cool a Targa can be.

So.....that said, here is a red coupe ready to go !

No affiliation. Saw it on a photo from this weeks Lit show festivities in EL-Ay.

Good luck !!!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393969971.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393969990.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393970031.jpg

Bash 03-05-2014 10:47 AM

Everyone,
thanks-yes I am ready to "go".
Anyone had any luck through the quest program? It seems to me that their pricing maybe a little inflated as well?
b

RacerX1166 03-05-2014 11:07 AM

BTW, did anyone notice the status of our favorite Porsche expert, PML?

COLB 03-05-2014 11:34 AM

Quote:

PushingMyLuck

Banned
Wow. Mods wielding the Ban Hammer.

I like it. I expect he is sniveling over on Rennlist about how mistreated he is.


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