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My experience with Victory Motors - Houston

This is one for anyone who is searching....

I should start by telling you that I like my car (1988 911 COUPE), it is very pretty and runs well - and I am happy to have it. Victory motors has a lot of pretty, old 911s and I wanted one and was willing to pay top dollar for my daily driver. I corresponded with Robert Allen for a couple of months regarding color, condition requirements, and price. When he had one that fit all of my criteria, I sent him the money sight unseen. yes, I am foolish and naive.
I am posting this because, I just want all of you to know - he was very, very deceitful.

Specifically, for example,

He wouldn’t give me the exact leak down results. Kept texting things like “the results are fine” or “all the numbers are good”. He consistently allows himself to have plausible deniability…….he tells partial truths. When I cornered him with knowledge that the car had a bad head stud cyl 3…he was like “no it doesn't - my guys looked and they are all fine". So I asked for a video showing the inspection of the head studs-----then he reversed position saying "wow - I found a broken head stud....I had no idea….” HE KNEW! - I found out when I did an internet search on my VIN. The prior owner (that sold the car to Victory) put in the advertisement for the car that the head stud was broken. The PO told me that he specifically talked to Victory (mr neil) about the broken head stud - and that it the engine wasn't symptomatic yet. Victory specifically told me that the stud was NOT broken until I sent the ad to him. Then he said he had no idea and it "didn't look broken" -- then he claimed -"it was broken and he had fixed it"......

I let him know that the AC needed to work -this was a deal breaker requirement. i live in new orleans -and can't be exposed to light (i.e. I can't have the tinted windows down during the day) he assured me that the AC worked. It did - for less than 24 hours, and then cost me 2200.oo to replace the condenser, the evaporator coil and do another recharge less than one week after purchase. Yes, They “worked” but they leaked like a sieve.

The original seat belts were shredded…He agreed to replace them during our purchase negotiations, in writing....when the car arrived - they were not replaced. I called and asked him to replace them - he told me I was "Nit Picking" and he sent old moldy nasty WET seat belts for me to install on my own…..again - since I didn’t specify new or in excellent condition - he claims that he replaced my belts as we agreed upon prior to purchase. I am unwilling to install used seat belts in a 30 year old car so I am ordering a set of 4 from seatbelt planet.....600.00 +. I was actually surprised that he would sell a car with shredded seat belts...seems like a liability issue to me.

I could go on and on - lots of small items, BUT - bottom line - the man is a pro, and he has no conscience. Have a PPI, get any promises in writing, and get specific answers to any questions that you have IN WRITING. If those criteria are satisfied than you are set.

I was a fool. I trusted his guys to do the PPI - I knew better but allowed my desire for this car to overshadow my intellect. Caveat emptor….

I have no desire to dwell on this. I like my car and take responsibility for not doing my research on this man, this dealership and this car prior to purchase. I only desire to warn those of you who are trusting souls....DONT TRUST THIS PERSON -

ok I am done

the queen -

Marilyn Pelias (echecsqueen)
__________________
1988 911 Coupe Granite Green with grey green -my daily driver
1967 912 Coupe Stone Grey "outlaw" -wowzer!
1978 924 White with Cork (Streetcar vs. Porsche - streetcar won)
1984 924s Nile Green Metallic with bone (totaled it in the snow in Cleveland, Ohio)
1983 911 White with Cherry Red...gave away (not enough time or money to keep it running) in 2001
Old 06-19-2017, 02:51 AM
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No one likes to read about a hardship resulting from having trusted someone. I am sorry this happened to you, but equally grateful that you shared this story to help others.

The car business gets a big heap of deserved 'reputation' across good and bad dealers, but situations like this - now searchable for anyone doing due diligence - help put people on solid notice about particular dealers.

Hoping you continue to improve your car, and enjoy it more as you do.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:06 AM
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Thank you. I have had many, many more positive experiences than negative when trusting others. On this board alone I have gotten great advice, offers of assistance and help from total strangers. I am not feeling sorry for myself at all...just wanted to put the "heads-up" out there for the next guy (or gal). Isn't the internet a thing of wonder
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1988 911 Coupe Granite Green with grey green -my daily driver
1967 912 Coupe Stone Grey "outlaw" -wowzer!
1978 924 White with Cork (Streetcar vs. Porsche - streetcar won)
1984 924s Nile Green Metallic with bone (totaled it in the snow in Cleveland, Ohio)
1983 911 White with Cherry Red...gave away (not enough time or money to keep it running) in 2001
Old 06-19-2017, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echecsqueen View Post
Thank you. I have had many, many more positive experiences than negative when trusting others. On this board alone I have gotten great advice, offers of assistance and help from total strangers. I am not feeling sorry for myself at all...just wanted to put the "heads-up" out there for the next guy (or gal). Isn't the internet a thing of wonder
PM sent
Old 06-19-2017, 07:14 AM
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I'm quite sorry to hear about your less than pleasant experience Marilyn but I do indeed thank you very much for sharing your experience here with us.

I'm actually located just north of Houston and a few months back reached out to Victory to inquire about a Slate Blue Euro SC they had listed. Robert was the one that corresponded with me and immediately based on his spelling and grammar I got a bad feeling about everything. He just didn't come across as professional in the slightest. I inquired about the Euro SC and asked to come see it in person so that I could look it over on a lift. He responded immediately with something along the lines of "sure not a problem at all...let me schedule a time later today where we can get it up in the air and you can stop by." Three days later I had to be the one to reach back out to him to find out if he had scheduled something and I get "oh sorry that car sold to someone in Europe and is being prepped for overseas transport". Just the sheer fact that he wouldn't immediately set up a viewing, especially for a local in town potential customer, left me with a not so great feeling about the operation. Almost as if they would prefer to sell to clients that don't want to actually see the product in person until it's delivered. Needless to say I don't waste time saving their auctions in "my ebay" any longer.

I hope your 88 turns out to be a diamond that just needed a little polishing. Keep us up to date on how everything progresses.
Old 06-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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The search function can be your friend here. Robert Neal's antics are well documented here and on Rennlist. He had major issues telling the truth, he also was in cahoots with the local shop he would refer PPI work to.

At one point several years ago he sent out phony cease and desist letters to people who were non stop pointing out their bad experiences and the mountains of lies he was telling. Funny thing was he sent the cease and desist letters via PM on rennlist and didn't even have the users real names on them since he didnt have access to the real names.

Hope things work out and the fun is not spoiled by garbage sellers like Victory.
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Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 97 993 C2S,
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:41 AM
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Caveat emptor indeed, a quick google search would have shown their practices. I implore all buyers to have independent PPI's performed by reputable air cooled specialists and to practice thorough due diligence.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:53 AM
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Sadly, many, many people in the classic car business have no conscience. They are able to move the bar where they want to in their mind. This has gone on for decades - even in the high-high end classic car business. I have seen it as I have been there. You have to be able to trust your gut. Unfortunately there are very few people with the specialized knowledge around anymore to even properly PPI an aircooled car. I wouldn't buy from a dealer. I just would not. I would find a car that is still owned and cared for by someone who knows it.
Old 06-19-2017, 11:42 AM
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Here is a 2015 post from Rennlist - another example of their shenanigans:

Beware Rennsters!

Winning bid for 993 cab from Victory Motors. ebay Iiem # 371239680209

Within 24 hours I contacted them to give a deposit. A deposit must be received within 3 days of the auction end....within the 3 day period (the second day actually) they informed me it will cost 4k more than my winning bid.

I have this dealer admitting in writing on ebay auction messaging that.......... "the transmission broke right after the auction ended" ....... "if you still want the car it will cost $4000 more... $38500 instead of $34500"

I allege that:

This ploy can be used on any auction....if you don't get the bid you want simply say the car suffered a catastrophic failure CONVENIENTLY just after the auction ended.

I can copy/paste ALL our ebay messages here verbatim. There is no defense to this scenario. They effectively changed the vehicle description after the auction ended; that's fraudulent. They cancelled the auction AFTER it ended??? who does this? Reserve was met. This is overt fraud.

VICTORY MOTORS Houston, Texas

Tangible, irrefutable, unethical business practices.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:32 PM
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Hahahaah

Service, Integrity, Trust. Its in all his advertisement photos. Its got to be true. LOL! Should be

NO Service, NO Integrity, NO Trust.

Last edited by turbotoo; 06-19-2017 at 01:22 PM..
Old 06-19-2017, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBAtarga View Post
Here is a 2015 post from Rennlist - another example of their shenanigans:

Beware Rennsters!

Winning bid for 993 cab from Victory Motors. ebay Iiem # 371239680209

Within 24 hours I contacted them to give a deposit. A deposit must be received within 3 days of the auction end....within the 3 day period (the second day actually) they informed me it will cost 4k more than my winning bid.

I have this dealer admitting in writing on ebay auction messaging that.......... "the transmission broke right after the auction ended" ....... "if you still want the car it will cost $4000 more... $38500 instead of $34500"

I allege that:

This ploy can be used on any auction....if you don't get the bid you want simply say the car suffered a catastrophic failure CONVENIENTLY just after the auction ended.

I can copy/paste ALL our ebay messages here verbatim. There is no defense to this scenario. They effectively changed the vehicle description after the auction ended; that's fraudulent. They cancelled the auction AFTER it ended??? who does this? Reserve was met. This is overt fraud.

VICTORY MOTORS Houston, Texas

Tangible, irrefutable, unethical business practices.
That is completely, utterly hilarious. It's actually quite precious...wow
Old 06-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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No service, no integrity no trust

Old 06-19-2017, 01:22 PM
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It's missing one word;
Service, Honesty, Integrity, Trust. Then the acronym is ****!!!
Old 06-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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A couple of rules I use when buying a car from far away. The first is say you want to fly out and see the car, if someone says, "Great, I'll pick you up at the airport." You probably have a good seller. If you get vagueness or push-back, well, there's your answer. The 2nd rule is ask about doing a PPI, a good seller will be more than happy to agree to this, a bad seller will push you to buy saying things like, "the phone is ringing off the hook, you better buy now". If you're buying one car for yourself, give yourself a year to find a good car, it might take that long. I buy all day every day so I don't get this kind of luxury, but one guy buying one car has it. Take your time.
My last piece of advice is if you are emailing only with someone, ask for their phone number and call them. It's a lot easier to lie when typing than it is when talking, this also weeds out 95% of the scammers.
Remember if someone pushes you to buy a car now, and you think it's your lucky day and you better jump, don't.

---Adam
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:45 PM
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I wish I still had the phony Cease and Desist order he PM's me through Rennlist.

He is the exact kind of person you don't want to do business with.
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Current:2007 BMW R1200S, 1988 Cassis Red Targa, 88 Guards Red Coupe
Wrecked 1987 Targa Guards Red, 2003 Ducati ST4S
Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 97 993 C2S,
93 RSA, other 964 coupes, 89 911 Turbo Ruf mods, 90 e30 M3
STOLEN 94 Speedster
Old 06-19-2017, 03:10 PM
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I wish I still had the phony Cease and Desist order he PM's me through Rennlist.

He is the exact kind of person you don't want to do business with.
HAHAHAH!A! Wanna sell the 88 coupe?
Old 06-19-2017, 03:46 PM
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The Targa is being sold now. Then I'll get the coupe ready for sale. 64k miles, guards red with Linen and black.
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Current:2007 BMW R1200S, 1988 Cassis Red Targa, 88 Guards Red Coupe
Wrecked 1987 Targa Guards Red, 2003 Ducati ST4S
Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 97 993 C2S,
93 RSA, other 964 coupes, 89 911 Turbo Ruf mods, 90 e30 M3
STOLEN 94 Speedster
Old 06-19-2017, 03:54 PM
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wow - glad I posted this.....hopefully he will show up on more searches. Thanks all
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1988 911 Coupe Granite Green with grey green -my daily driver
1967 912 Coupe Stone Grey "outlaw" -wowzer!
1978 924 White with Cork (Streetcar vs. Porsche - streetcar won)
1984 924s Nile Green Metallic with bone (totaled it in the snow in Cleveland, Ohio)
1983 911 White with Cherry Red...gave away (not enough time or money to keep it running) in 2001
Old 06-19-2017, 04:38 PM
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Victory

Be patient.Karma will cure that situation.You know there is an airport nearby so if he is in the parking lot and a part drops off the plane.Oh well.Fred
Old 06-19-2017, 05:13 PM
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Hi Marilyn
Since this is in the past-please just go out and enjoy the car. Give it what it needs to make you smile.
Old 06-20-2017, 03:29 PM
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