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Filler is ok just not in excess of approx 1/16”-1/8” even if it’s a skim coat on the whole panel. Every restorer that I know does this with spread on(“bondo”) or spray on(polyester primer) to be able to block the panels perfectly straight. One of many of the issues here was that it looked to be well thicker than that in many areas. At that point you’re sculpting the car out of clay
Old 11-13-2017, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
Filler is ok just not in excess of approx 1/16Ē-1/8Ē even if itís a skim coat on the whole panel. Every restorer that I know does this with spread on(ďbondoĒ) or spray on(polyester primer) to be able to block the panels perfectly straight. One of many of the issues here was that it looked to be well thicker than that in many areas. At that point youíre sculpting the car out of clay
So you're saying I can't have turbo flares on my Porsche, made out of Bondo?
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanbs View Post
Filler is ok just not in excess of approx 1/16”-1/8” even if it’s a skim coat on the whole panel. Every restorer that I know does this with spread on(“bondo”) or spray on(polyester primer) to be able to block the panels perfectly straight. One of many of the issues here was that it looked to be well thicker than that in many areas. At that point you’re sculpting the car out of clay
Thanks for sharing, like I said, I know nothing about bodywork. Is there a thickness beyond which bondo is easily distinguishable from metal ? Would it still sound like metal when you tap it (lightly and no, Rawknees, calm down) or look different ?
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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thickness

Years ago if you stripped a Furrari you ran into a similar situation.Sculpting is an art.Ciao
Old 11-13-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pmax View Post
Thanks for sharing, like I said, I know nothing about bodywork. Is there a thickness beyond which bondo is easily distinguishable from metal ? Would it still sound like metal when you tap it (lightly and no, Rawknees, calm down) or look different ?
Ha ha - you said "tap it"!

Yep, it would still feel and sound like metal it the filler layer is super thin.

To piggyback (not like that! ) off what Nathan said, it is common practice to float a lot of filler on panels, and then block sand most of it off, in order to get a very smooth and even surface - even with brand new panels that often have their share of imperfections (slight bumpy/waviness).
Old 11-13-2017, 06:33 PM
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Thanks for sharing, like I said, I know nothing about bodywork. Is there a thickness beyond which bondo is easily distinguishable from metal ? Would it still sound like metal when you tap it (lightly and no, Rawknees, calm down) or look different ?
As Rawknees said if itís thin enough that you canít feel/hear it when you knock and you canít detect it on edges of panels as in they are visibly thicker, then the only way is to measure with an electrometer. However electrometers stop reading at about 2 credit cards thick, so essentially if it reads youíre in pretty good shape.
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Years ago if you stripped a Furrari you ran into a similar situation.Sculpting is an art.Ciao
Lol weíll unfortunately paint and body restoration is a science
Old 11-13-2017, 07:46 PM
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Looks like a better method than the plastic filler stuff to me.

"The good thing about lead work is it become structure part of car"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPr4ldiJRY
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Last edited by pmax; 11-14-2017 at 10:04 AM..
Old 11-14-2017, 09:57 AM
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Looks like a better method than the plastic filler stuff to me.

"The good thing about lead work is it become structure part of car"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPr4ldiJRY
there's a ton of debate on whether lead is better or worse. Looks cool, sounds cool but is very "dirty" and was never designed to last like the new technology plastics are. I've never seen a lead job last the long haul whether it be a joint on an all original american muscle car or custom work on a "lead sled". Super heavy as well since we are in the interest of reducing weight. PS is that Mike from Breaking Bad?

Last edited by nathanbs; 11-14-2017 at 10:33 AM..
Old 11-14-2017, 10:22 AM
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:29 AM
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there's a ton of debate on whether lead is better or worse. Looks cool, sounds cool but is very "dirty" and was never designed to last like the new technology plastics are. I've never seen a lead job last the long haul whether it be a joint on an all original american muscle car or custom work on a "lead sled". Super heavy as well since we are in the interest of reducing weight. PS is that Mike from Breaking Bad?
Bear with me here as I play devil's advocate with this question ...

why is John Esposito's bondo sculpture considered by most folks (not all it seems !) unacceptable then ?

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Old 11-14-2017, 11:53 AM
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Playing devil's advocate here, why is John Esposito's bondo sculpure unacceptable then ?

its way too thick. Settle down Rawknees. As mentioned previously 1/16-1/8" ideal thickness. More time was clearly needed during the metal finishing stage to restore the metal to a much closer to original spec. prior to starting any filler work. I also imagine someone got a little carried away with the mud and didn't realize how thick they were going. Easy to do but unacceptable nonetheless
Old 11-14-2017, 11:57 AM
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its way too thick. Settle down Rawknees. As mentioned previously 1/16-1/8" ideal thickness. More time was clearly needed during the metal finishing stage to restore the metal to a much closer to original spec. prior to starting any filler work. I also imagine someone got a little carried away with the mud and didn't realize how thick they were going. Easy to do but unacceptable nonetheless
You are missing my point, again playing devil's advocate here ...

Question is why is it considered too thick ? If the OP's car was "completed", I bet it would still look just as good and perform as well.

Another example, does it really matter how much bondo filler John Esposito has put into this car posted here $53k body work or $73k body work? You decide ? The owner is satisfied with the work and many seem to agree it's done well.

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Old 11-14-2017, 12:03 PM
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pNutz, the long-term results of thick (Nathan is so nasty!) filler are poor because when thick enough (), it will shrink, shift and change shape with time - resulting in waviness, cracking, and graininess as it ages . . . extremely thin spots of filler do not do this.

PS - ask Deez about the effects of age-related shrinkage!

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 11-14-2017 at 12:48 PM..
Old 11-14-2017, 12:41 PM
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pNutz, the long-term results of thick (Nathan is so nasty!) filler are poor because when thick enough (), it will shrink, shift and change shape with time - resulting in waviness, cracking, and graininess as it ages . . . extremely thin spots of filler do not do this.

PS - ask Deez about the effects of age-related shrinkage!
Itís almost like heís not paying attention since this was previously stated.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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Lead is even worse in my opinion, mainly due to weight. Hang around Steve Hogue's shop - he is able to accomplish metal work that requires almost NO filler of any kind. That's what you should be aiming for.

If you need lead to fill something on a car, your metal work isn't good enough.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:35 PM
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My old boss is dying of heavy metal poisoning from the 20 years he spent as a body man in the 60s and 70s. There's more than weight reasons why lead isn't a good material anymore.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:46 PM
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For the love of God will somebody just kill this thread!
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:20 PM
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Lead is even worse in my opinion, mainly due to weight. Hang around Steve Hogue's shop - he is able to accomplish metal work that requires almost NO filler of any kind. That's what you should be aiming for.

If you need lead to fill something on a car, your metal work isn't good enough.
and this is why any car that needs serious metal fab visits Steve before it visits me. My parents didn't raise a complete idiot lol. No need to re-invent the wheel. There's no way I'll ever be able to have a guy as good as Steve in house.
Old 11-14-2017, 02:58 PM
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You are missing my point, again playing devil's advocate here ...

Question is why is it considered too thick ? If the OP's car was "completed", I bet it would still look just as good and perform as well.

Another example, does it really matter how much bondo filler John Esposito has put into this car posted here $53k body work or $73k body work? You decide ? The owner is satisfied with the work and many seem to agree it's done well.

number 1 there are several areas that the thickness would be apparent on the edges of the finished product. 2 Cracking and shrinking as mentioned above 3. weight 4.paint gauge wont read

I still think the fender to hood gap on that car looks suspect.
Old 11-14-2017, 03:09 PM
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Wow, that Steve Hogue dude appears to be the true bodywork master.

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For the love of God will somebody just kill this thread!
Haha, I learnt more from the last 2 pages of this thread than any of these PPMP gems below.

The affordable long hood thread....
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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