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What is up with all the low mileage 930's?

Just looking through ebay and autotrader ads at various 930's trying to check out the market. I am very skeptical of some of the claimed mileages posted. A lot of cars have under 50,000 miles for a car that is between 30 - 40 years old. Are people being dishonest or are these legit cars? Below are just a few cars I was checking out.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Porsche-911/112688046844?hash=item1a3cbb22fc:g:7OIAAOSwY~1aMKz J&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Porsche-930/162820182025?hash=item25e8d6d009:g:1JMAAOSw56NaLax 5&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Porsche-930-Turbo/162810349286?hash=item25e840c6e6:g:vKQAAOSwBPVZi1J t&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-Porsche-930-Turbo-Carrera-Low-Miles-Matching-numbers/391951225720?hash=item5b421d1378:g:9IgAAOSws6ZZ57G N&vxp=mtr
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:14 PM
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The DP listing states in the description that the mileage is unknown, maybe the mileage shown is simply what is currently on the odometer. Agreed that it is a bit confusing though.

I surely don’t consider a 1984 in the 40k’s a low mileage car, but I guess it’s all relative.
Old 12-26-2017, 07:53 PM
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You’re right to be skeptical because 3 out of the 4 cars you posted do not have the correct factory odometer. The sellers probably don’t have any documentation of the odometer switch and most often don’t know and/or don’t care. The ‘76 does have the correct odometer but the COA states platinum metallic and not the color of the car, silver metallic. This surely needs to be corrected or vetted for a $200K car. I’ve pm’d you more info.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:08 PM
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Do yourself a favor and don't buy a 930 off eBay.
Old 12-26-2017, 09:02 PM
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Because there freekin liars...

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Old 12-26-2017, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black968 View Post
Just looking through ebay and autotrader ads at various 930's trying to check out the market. I am very skeptical of some of the claimed mileages posted. A lot of cars have under 50,000 miles for a car that is between 30 - 40 years old. Are people being dishonest or are these legit cars? Below are just a few cars I was checking out.]

Original replaced with 180 mph speedo...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Porsche-911/112688046844?hash=item1a3cbb22fc:g:7OIAAOSwY~1aMKz J&vxp=mtr

Original replaced with 180 mph speedo...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Porsche-930/162820182025?hash=item25e8d6d009:g:1JMAAOSw56NaLax 5&vxp=mtr

Original 300 kph replaced with mph speedo...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Porsche-930-Turbo/162810349286?hash=item25e840c6e6:g:vKQAAOSwBPVZi1J t&vxp=mtr

Correct 180mph speedo but I would pop out the speedo and check the VDO date stamp to verify...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-Porsche-930-Turbo-Carrera-Low-Miles-Matching-numbers/391951225720?hash=item5b421d1378:g:9IgAAOSws6ZZ57G N&vxp=mtr

Many 930s have dubious mileage claims but it's pretty easy to verify the VDO date stamp on the back of the speedo. I think it is less likely that someone will go through the trouble to alter the mileage of an original speedo but I'm sure that happens as well. Caveat emptor...so many mileage claims are bogus.
Old 12-27-2017, 03:41 AM
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low mileage?

In the late 70,s I was doing PPI on cars.One 77 Turbo I looked at had 5,000 miles.2nd owner.There was TOGGLE switch under the dash which I thought was fuel pumps cut-off.When I flipped the switch the car did not die but the speedo stopped working.Owner said he never noticed the switch.After that I measured the thickness of the front rotors to gauge mileage by wear.You never know.Ciao Fred
Old 12-27-2017, 04:12 AM
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The internal plastic drive gears for the ODO will soften with grease and time, then strip the teeth, stopping the ODO. Perhaps lying dead for many thousands of miles. Check to see if the ODO is working, then pop the speedo out and examine the metal glass mounting ring to see if there are signs that its been pried off for repairs. The mileage reading can also be turned back once the parts are out for the $15 gear repair.
Old 12-27-2017, 04:41 AM
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The odometer gears actually harden and become brittle over time. They break off easily once they harden. The parts for the repair are cheap but unless you've done it before you're not going to pry and replace the bezel well. North Hollywood or Palo Alto charge about $150 for the job.
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Old 12-27-2017, 05:34 AM
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Without proper maintenance records how can someone make a claim for such low mileage and be taken seriously?
Old 12-27-2017, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader220 View Post
The odometer gears actually harden and become brittle over time. They break off easily once they harden. The parts for the repair are cheap but unless you've done it before you're not going to pry and replace the bezel well. North Hollywood or Palo Alto charge about $150 for the job.
This is true. Real buyers must be skeptical about spedometer claims and verification by records and true ownership history is the best means possible.
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Old 12-27-2017, 06:11 AM
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Not dissimilar to so many of ebay's "numbers matching" mid-sixties to early seventies muscle cars.

Believe some of these sellers at your own financial and expensive repairs peril.

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Old 12-27-2017, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dillon View Post
The internal plastic drive gears for the ODO will soften with grease and time, then strip the teeth, stopping the ODO. Perhaps lying dead for many thousands of miles. Check to see if the ODO is working, then pop the speedo out and examine the metal glass mounting ring to see if there are signs that its been pried off for repairs. The mileage reading can also be turned back once the parts are out for the $15 gear repair.
Not to mention you can easily disable the the odometer by removing the rear, center tunnel cover and unplugging the speed sensor wire.
Old 12-27-2017, 08:38 AM
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Having rebuilt a G series odometer, it is comically easy to set the mileage to whatever you want.
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:22 AM
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Sure but don't forget it's also a serious federal crime.
That is practically impossible to prove.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:25 AM
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Just trying to get a realistic value of my car. It has more miles, but they are verifiable with paperwork. Not sure how someone spending this much money could be so foolish to buy a misrepresented car. How can sales people sleep at night? I think it would be better to buy a higher mileage car with paperwork than a 1980 - 1985 grey market car with a changed out odometer. Do not know of anyone getting thrown in the slammer for rolling back miles, so it must pay off.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
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Sure but don't forget it's also a serious federal crime.
this is proof we are unofficially moderated here...
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Black968 View Post
Just trying to get a realistic value of my car. It has more miles, but they are verifiable with paperwork. Not sure how someone spending this much money could be so foolish to buy a misrepresented car. How can sales people sleep at night? I think it would be better to buy a higher mileage car with paperwork than a 1980 - 1985 grey market car with a changed out odometer. Do not know of anyone getting thrown in the slammer for rolling back miles, so it must pay off.
I have never heard of anyone going to jail for odometer fraud. With the 4 examples shown at the start of the thread, 3 have non-original speedos and I doubt the sellers will disclose this fact.

I think rolled backed odometers are the exception to the rule. Much more likely to have a 930 grey market car (any year, not just 1980-1985) with a replacement speedo, a U.S. late-79 with the 85 mph replaced, or just a wrong speedo (180 mph speedo in U.S. '77-79, etc.).

If you find a car with a correct VDO date-matched speedo it's probably a sign the car has been well cared for a not abused or the odometer rolled back. As I mentioned before, it's so easy to pop out the speedo and check the date stamp. A date-matched speedo is something that is very difficult for someone to buy on eBay, etc. that will line-up with the production date of a car. My late '79 930 has a 85 mph speedo with a 11/79 date and my '75 930 has a 300 kph speedo with 12/74. Finding speedos with these correct VDO assembly date stamps for the production dates of my 930s would be a needle in a haystack. This is why it is very difficult for fraudsters to do but much easy if they don't worry about the date-stamps lining up with the production and just install a period-correct example.
Old 12-30-2017, 05:29 AM
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I would never believe an odometer even if the date was correct.
I need a file full of registration or repair records to correspond with mileage.

There was a Silver/Grey 930 about a year ago at Auction I call BS on. 26k ish on the odometer and recent full restoration? BS. Someone paid full auction price. I think is was $170k range +/-.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:51 AM
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A little off topic, but has a mileage reference. I know this is unusual but the worst early 930 I ever saw as follows.
Ironically it also was silver, maybe same one? It was a 76 or a 77, had 25 ( maybe 26K) original miles with all records from new and original paint. It was so heavily salt damaged especially underneath it could have been used since 1977 as a NYC taxi. I doubt much ( if any ) metal could be saved if someone tried to restore it to match the otherwise great credentials. All stock ( & no mods ) for those who care, also good running, driving and a nice original interior.
It was actually being offered by a well known dealer. I feel sorry for the buyer if he bought it based on those merits. Real unrestored or with minor repairs resulting in a sympathetic restored car that are in line with a otherwise well cared for and serviced example , are still most important even if all the other PR is present. Once a complete restoration is performed, who knows? Good sense should dictate that a low miler should have lots of untampered with originality present to pay big $$$. Low odometer miles, real or not, is not an absolute to indicate or justify previous or current condition, for sure. And no aspersions cast on NY Porsches as the car was not from NY. I have had some very nice 930s from that area of the country. A New Years " thank you" to those who honestly sold me the good ones over the years and made some happy new 930 owners.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:55 AM
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