914 2.0 150 hp

[914kit]

Thinking of having Alan Bishop in MA rebuild the 914 2.0 to 150 hp anyone here used him.

I am think less and less of the V-8

[campbellcj]

Alan and his rebuilding services have come up from time to time on the Rennlist.

There is generally a lot of skeptism about how he obtains his (allegedly) high power ratings...he claims he does not increase displacement, and uses all factory parts. He would never explain in detail how he gets that kind of power out of a "stock" rebuild. Sounds kinda like snake oil IMHO. Most 914 folks figure that 110-115hp is about tops for a 2.0 even when built with euro P/C's and fully blueprinted/balanced/tuned.

[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 05-16-2001).]

[oredith]

maybe he adds in a turbo, and doesn't tell you about it..

[914kit]

yeah

Originally posted by oredith:
maybe he adds in a turbo, and doesn't tell you about it..

[JmuRiz]

oredith - Who's crazy enough to put a turbo on their 914

[Jim T]

150 hp from a 2.0 is not possible with the stock fuel injection.

[campbellcj]

OK somebody, enlighten us please!!!

Where does the 55 hp come from and what is the usable powerband (revs)?

Obviously you'd have to significantly bump the compression. You'd have to get more air into (and out of) the engine so we talking about $serious$ head work, probably a modified throttle body, a D-jet friendly cam, higher flow fuel injectors, and an open exhaust. You'd probably have to beef up the valvetrain to be happy at higher revs, certainly 6000+ if not quite a bit higher.

Those are the very vague and general things I would think are needed, but I would have no clue specifically how to build such a monster. What kind of $ are we talking about?

[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 05-18-2001).]

[Jim T]

IMO, you'd have to just toss the D-Jet and use an aftermarket injection, it would be cheaper and easier, and you could use a more aggressive cam.

You'd have to bump compression up to past a healthy amount.

You could do some head work, but I don't think that would help very much. Plus, you don't want to remove too much material from 2.0 heads, they are not very strong to start with.

You'd have to use a peaky cam to try to focus on getting a max HP (with disregard to torque) number.

And I think you probably STILL would not get 150 hp, and would have a peaky engine that would not be very durable.

[914kit]

ok how about dual webers,
bigger bore and stroke,
cam upgrade, and head work

(BTW the turbo comment was sarcasm)

[campbellcj]

No fair 914kit...you've got to get the 150hp using the stock 2.0 displacement and stock fuel injection!

------------------
Chris C.
73 914 2.0
70 911E Targa
campbell.chris@gte.net

[oredith]

i figure "it can't be done!"..

seriously though, i have strong doubts on how the 150 figure can be reached using factory parts with stock displacement, compression, and FI...

that said, i wouldn't say it was impossible, i just won't believe it until i see it. afterall, some people didn't think you could turbo a 914, then Sam prooved them wrong, Ed showed how it could be done with a CIS conversion, and my own little D-jet project.

there's no such thing as free power..

maybe he (alan) sticks in a K&N filter, a rice exhaust, and a few type-R stickers on the car... it should be WAY above 150 then, right?..

[Bleyseng]

Don't forget the carbon fiber intake cover (25hp) and the polished aluminum intake (25hp. That makes some serious horsepower!
Geoff

------------------
76 914 2.0L

[914kit]

i talked to alan
he says he uses
dual webers
same bore and stroke (stock)
new valves
new pistons/cylinders
balanced
$3500 for 150 hp
?
?
?

[campbellcj]

Those changes will add anywhere from zero to maybe 5 hp....the only real "changes" he mentioned are webers (see the many old threads for that debate) and balancing the engine, which really just makes it run smoother.

I remain a complete skeptic at this point...

[oredith]

yes and no, chris,

first, dual webers would NOT be stock, as i think Alan's original claim stated.

2nd, Brad builds race 914 engines with all the goodies (not sure if that includes roller rockers, but i think it does), USING webers, but keeping the displacement & compression, in order to stay in stock class, and he says he's squeezing out 125-130hp.

the new description definitely sounds more feasible, but without a hotter cam to go with the bigger valves (i'm assuming that's what he means by "new valves"), it won't make much more power. again, a different cam wasn't mentioned in the build-up.

the balancing part gives some insight, i think. it *would* run smoother, and i think that'll be essential, because you probably won't hit that power until 7k..

with those mods, it probably moves your power band up at least 1000rpm, making street driving very annoying..

i said it once, and will again, for 500-1000 bucks (depending on how hi-tech you want to get), you (914 owners in general) can build your own turbo kit, make about 30 more HP with no other modifications, and still retain the daily drivability of the 914.

and no, i'm *NOT* getting into the business of making turbo kits.. the cost was a minor issue, the *time* was the main factor, and i don't want to go through that again, unless it's for a very good friend.

[campbellcj]

I'm pretty sure Brad uses carb cams and probably some head work, plus headers, to get ~125hp on the carbed engines. (I think Mark L. has a similar setup on his race car.) Brad also told me you can get a basically stock D-jet 2.0 to 115 or so just by careful tuning plus a better exhaust (probably that 110dB setup he had at the PBR). Those are dyno-tested results.

That still leaves 15-25 hp "unaccounted for" in the Alan build sheet. I'm not trying to discredit the guy and he may well be a Type4 magician, but on the evidence so far it seems he is trying to sell a bill of goods to fellow 914 owners.

[914kit]

I talked to some locals
and have decided against having alan rebuild the 2.0
i can get 150+ with the dual webers, head work, exhaust, cam, euro pistons, and a big bore kit to 2.3 or something like that, according to the mechanics,
so we will see

i just dont see how alan can do it without a bigger bore and stroke..

[Va914]

Turbo Kit...Is there a tech write up on this. I have seen all kings of talk about people doing it. A parts list and a good start on the project written up would help.
Time is easier to come by then big sums of money!!!

Thanks.

[oredith]

a lot of welding.. so if you're a good welder, you're 75% of the way there..

chris's site has a few pictures
http://www.nosubstitute.org/events/DonGlenns6May01/

look for the nasty looking blue 914 (paint needed)

a good, junkyard, turbo will only cost about 100 bucks.. mandrel bent 2.5" u-pipes are 15 bucks each (will need about 5), one stainless steel U from Burns Stainless is 45 bucks (you only need one, from the collector to the turbo, very hot)

stock D-jet is good up to 4-5psi, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (200 bucks) will get you to 8-9psi..

after that, you need some additonal parts, like a higher pressure/flow fuel pump, additional injector, better internals (to keep the engine together)..

part of that 500-1000 is the gauges you need to monitor all that.. i've got A LOT of gauges, but the basics, you want at least a oil temp gauge, and an EGT gauge (look for the picture of the *non-stock* dash in chris' page.

[oredith]

http://www.all914.com/jeff/3-27/mavica.htm
http://www.all914.com/jeff/3-24/mavica.htm
http://www.all914.com/jeff/3-24/mavica1.htm

not much in terms of description.. but might give you guys an idea, those who haven't seen it.