In search of ... A Cheap Track car

Danglerb · 03-08-2008, 03:06 AM

*** disclaimer, this is all pure speculation, if not outright idle thinking ***

To kick off the thread I'm going to give the secret to a cheap track car. Competitive cars cost some serious money. Skip all the stuff done to squeeze out the last few hp and win races, and save a lot of money.

Pick the right car for the type of track event your interested in. I like the 928, great suspension, big V8, room inside for a big guy like myself, parts are available from cheap used to maxed out race gear, and the cars can be purchased cheap.

Its a big car, high polar moment (weight at both ends instead of the middle) so it takes up more of the available traction from the tires to make the car turn. Its not going to like short tracks with tight turns. AutoX I think is mostly short tracks and tight turns, so maybe pick something else.

Cheap means older, Jim says 84+ bumps up the racing class, so 1983 or older, which is also the only age with non sun roof cars common. I think some track events exclude AT, danger from unintended shifts in turns, something to consider.

78 to 83, non sunroof, 5 spd, and what else to look for?

Good running is kind of obvious, but if the car is going to be tracked I don't think we need to find a car already running well because everything related to running well is likely going to be messed with prepping the car.

Good rubber parts, might have the same argument, but no way can the car stay cheap if a lot of rubber gets replaced.

Safety can't be compromised, but for cheap it might be practical to aim at a racing class that didn't require a full cage.

Red Baron · 03-08-2008, 04:44 AM

A cheap car is one thing however the events themselves are costly also. Just registration for a DE event can cost in the $300-700 range. Racing entry fees on average are even higher than that. Travel to the event= tow vehicle gas plus hotel overnight costs. Tires: a set of R compound tires are $850 plus another $100 to mount them, oh and you'll need an extra set of wheels and tires for in case things are wet $450 for some Kuhmos plus a set of wheels. Portable tools: Jack and stands, Torque wrench, Nitrogen bottle, Fuel cans and a set of the basics. Plus Helmet (at least $300) shoes ($85) Driving suit ($500). Plan on replacing a windsheild or two also because once it's cracked you will not pass tech. You can use peel offs to protect it however a 4 set is about $275. And brakes, you'll be going through some pads, fluid (every event). This is only the beginning.

I'm really not sure what your looking to do but doing it cheap is not easy.

Danglerb · 03-08-2008, 01:34 PM

"What part of Porsche racing did you think was going to be inexpensive, the Porsche part or the racing part?" GB

No getting around track fees, AutoX I think tends to be cheaper, but I think less fun in a 928. Part of the cheap car plan I think would include driving it to the track, and initially I think running a DOT tire instead of a race tire. Race tires are the slippery slope that drops you out of cheap, big grip tires and stock brakes will need replacing, and the feel of the car is going to shift more in the under powered direction.

Maybe one of the racers can comment on which classes and types of racing have the least costly equipment requirements?

Red Baron · 03-08-2008, 06:33 PM

Auto crossing sucks imo. Little seat time and little gained compared to a real track.

I guess driving the racer to events would be ok if you're only going to drive to a track near you. I've already been to Daytona (8hr drive), Road Atlanta (2 hours), NPR (7 hours) and heading to Barber in Birmingham(3 hours) next month. Driving various tracks has been a blast as each is a new learning experience and presents new discoveries about the car. I can't imagine driving my car for several hours to these events and not being properly equipped with all of the gear I mentioned. Are you going to carry all of the stuff needed to bleed the breaks with you? I've had to bleed the breaks while at the track between sessions.

Maybe the better route for you would be to have a nice street car and do a few DE's with it and decide if you want to go to the next step..

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

as usual, Baron is on the money with this one......

$275 just to do one DE session near me at Texas World Speedway.

safety gear is a must, not an option, in my opinion.

Thirty years ago, I wouldn't think anything of driving my race car to and from the track. I have had a truck and car trailer for twenty something years after breaking (the car) only once. Walking home is not an option.

then there's extra fuel containers, generator, air compressor, tools, lawn chairs, coolers.....the list goes on and on......

--Russ

Danglerb · 03-08-2008, 10:24 PM

SoCal is good for events, 2 hrs to Willow, about 45 min to Calif speedway, plus even more local events like DE using the runway at one of the old military bases like El Toro.

Personally I am not thinking about a dedicated track car, or even that seriously at DE, at least nothing that would take much modification to a normally street driven car. This is just bouncing some ideas around.

I've driven a bone stock car a few times in a track situation, and its been fun.

My plan wouldn't be to be a mooch, but I would hope most SoCal events would include people I know, and there would be some amount of helping each other. Indeed what I would look at doing initially is tagging along just to help somebody else, maybe do some corner work or something.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

in that case, for your education on DE or cup car events, I suggest you look at PCA's local chapter event calender to see what's coming up, where and when.

you can then tag along, so to speak, and get a feel for what's involved.

our DE and cup car events are always accepting volunteers for track workers and such--this may be your doorway in---

--Russ

MarkRobinson · 03-10-2008, 08:08 AM

I have a cheap 928 track car for sale: '82, 5-speed, resealed engine, gutted chassis, S4 front suspension & brakes, recently murdered out (entire car is semi-gloss black). Taking to TWS this weekend to show it: asking 7k

See Picture below of PPG murdering progress (last weekend)

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

taped over the rear spoiler.........no trim removed.

that's interesting.

it takes no more than a half hour to remove it (rear spoiler, trim longer).

if you paint the car, it (the original color) will eventually show up some where around the edges.......

Great work........

--Russ

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

OH.....I forgot......

it's a track car-------

--Russ

Danglerb · 03-12-2008, 09:30 PM

Nice thing about a track car is that anything better than a 50 foot paint job is a luxury. At least it isn't going on with a roller.

Danglerb · 03-13-2008, 12:12 AM

Bone stock a whole lot of cars would be a dangerous handful on most tracks. Brakes would fade, and handling could get most novice drivers in over their heads before they realized it.

Bone stock I think most 928's would be a hoot, and with good tires most early cars are going to be fairly forgiving especially if somebody is in the next seat keeping you out of too much trouble.

Thats a cheap track car, bone stock early 928 with weight removed and safety items added, with performance increased as the budget permits and the disease sets in.

diverdan · diverdan's Garage

I bought one in pieces. 83 Euro 5 speed no interior, glass out, running engine out, good respray on rust free non accident body for the grand sum of $150 without title. Paper would be another $150. So far it sits amongst my other projects and will probably wind up being a donor car for other projects. On the track the style and sound are cool but in addition to all said it would be real expensive on tires. The guys on the 911 board seem to rate the miata very highly for cheap race fun and driver improvement.

Diverdan

MarkRobinson · 03-13-2008, 06:59 AM

Before you criticize my track car, Keep in mind that it IS a track car and, this is what it looked like before: already downgraded from a "driver" 928 by a previously horrible paint job.

I don't see the benefit of the added effort. Also, it takes more than 1/2 hour to remove the 3pc rear spoiler since you have to deal with the waterproofing at each bolt in the hatch: PITA & messy.

MarkRobinson · 03-13-2008, 07:04 AM

Also, I lost about 28k not including labor on the last 928 I restored: not about to waste any extra effort in a car I'm selling that's purpose-built. This gorgeously-restored '85 euro sold for a mere 13k with a transplanted 32v engine (fully rebuilt), computers & wiring, custom Gemballa wheels, full red/black interior, full stealth MB Quart stereo, etc.

whiteSC59 · 03-13-2008, 08:15 AM

Wow, Mark-got any more pics, especially the interior??

MarkRobinson · 03-13-2008, 08:21 AM

Track car: what interior? Black car: not really, I had purchased a rare lipstick red leather interior from a dismantler in Excellence back in '97 for $1500 & it sat for 4 years before I installed it in this car.

Yikes, really needed that hood mat before that last photo!

Danglerb · 03-13-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diverdan

I bought one in pieces. 83 Euro 5 speed no interior, glass out, running engine out, good respray on rust free non accident body for the grand sum of $150 without title. Paper would be another $150. So far it sits amongst my other projects and will probably wind up being a donor car for other projects. On the track the style and sound are cool but in addition to all said it would be real expensive on tires. The guys on the 911 board seem to rate the miata very highly for cheap race fun and driver improvement.

Diverdan

My guess is those guys aren't 6' 4" and 250 lbs.

You don't need "new" tires to have fun, thats one of those items where the $$$ go up fast when you start wanting to win.

Mark, I have no issue with race paint, comes with the territory, and no point having nicer paint than the sponsor will pay for.

BTW that copper metallic is about my favorite color, so the murder paint job was as "bad" as it could be.

Doing the S4 swap on the Euro may have been a real hit in value, OTOH an 85 Euro might normally sell for $5k or so, maybe $10k for a nice one? Or are you saying that is the one you restored?

MarkRobinson · 03-13-2008, 09:48 AM

The copper paint on my car was cheap, poorly prepared, poorly applied, & without a primer: so the paint started blowing off with a pressure-washer by accident: time for it to go...the vinyl lettering too. Crazy.

I restored the black one with the nice paint above: it sold for about 13k with a rebuilt & transplanted 32v installed...5-speed too. (about 275rwhp/tq). Maybe just bad timing of the sale?? Too late to re-test now...that was 3.5 years ago.

m21sniper · 04-14-2008, 07:02 PM

That black 928 might be the nicest looking shark i've ever seen.