German justice department looks into BMW brakes

HugoVW · 07-06-2005, 04:27 AM

Hello everybody,
I just read in a Dutch newspaper ( http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/22483881/Duitse_justitie_onderzoekt_BMW.html ) that the German justice department will investigate if BMW put motorcycles in the market which have brakes which don't function as they should be.
The technical malfunction of the ABS systems led to several accidents which are being investigated. About 250.000 bikes are fitted with the ABS system, altough BMW says that during 'normal' use the problem doesn't appear (what is 'normal'?)
I know more has been said about this, but now it is 'official'

Hugo

jweicht · 07-06-2005, 04:48 AM

Motorcycle Consumer News had a small story about this a month or so ago, and said that the UK was also investigating. According to the story, both countries were looking into this following numerous crashes that had occurred as a result of servo failure. One of the MCN testers had this happen to him while testing the R1200GS and it scared the @#!% out of him. Apparently he didn't care for brakes that only fully worked sometimes...

RoLoo · RoLoo's Garage

...scary story !!!

Ron.

07-06-2005, 08:25 AM

I'd like to know more about this: I've lost the brakes twice on my '02 evo-equipped bike. Truly wanks. For this reason alone, I will never buy another new BMW motorcycle. No smiley.

Luca · 07-06-2005, 11:04 AM

If you speak german (I don't

), here are some articles:

http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID4497358_TYP6_THE_NAV_REF1_BAB,00.html

http://www.daserste.de/plusminus/beitrag_dyn~uid,~cm.asp

http://www.tagesschau.de/video/0,1315,OID4498810_RES_NAV_BAB,00.html

acidburn · 07-06-2005, 11:17 AM

oh man this is killer news, ill copy A$S right now and see whats up with BMWNA, i better cacel the ABS on the new K-S, dam fellas, is this the best Froum in the world or what?

roger albert · 07-06-2005, 11:18 AM

Wow, those are pretty serious. ADAC and BMW are said to have known about the problem for over a year. Lots of reports of occurences, but only one guy hurt so far, on record. They believe the number of failures will increase with the machines aging, and that up to 250,000, including the new K12s are afflicted. BMW stands firm and states no recall is necessary, despite increasing calls for one. I'd hate to be on that engineering team right now. Yikes.

roger albert · 07-06-2005, 11:18 AM

Also, note it's been reported here for a long time, including by MCN, which is hardly an alarmist or reactionary pub.

roger albert · 11:39 AM

On the bright side, they only seem to fail under extreme braking

The video is pretty lengthy and telling, showing investigations by the state prosecutor, ADAC, and several press organizations. In Germany, notified all dealers that the problem won't ever occur in normal street traffic, but can on the track or in other training courses. The reporter took a hidden camera into 4 dealers and only one was aware, and they said they couldn't do anything and the the 'owner' would have to take it up with Munich.
They also had an interview with a former German national supermoto champion who'd wrecked his R1100S (see, this is relevant) at a trackday when the brakes failed at the end of a long straight. Snapped his thigh bone.

The report leads one to believe that it's quite widespread.
Possibly exaggerated, but clearly no longer a few isolated cases reported by fringe elements or naysayers.

acidburn · 07-06-2005, 11:37 AM

""I'd hate to be on that engineering team right now. Yikes.""

really!!! This is thier searious claim to fame, brakes, if the things fail OMG, all bets are off.

roger albert · 07-06-2005, 11:41 AM

Yeah, that's how the article starred out.
That is was suprising coming from the leading company in motorcycle safety.

Christ, will any coming R1200S be so plagued?

07-06-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

acidburn
""I'd hate to be on that engineering team right now. Yikes.""

really!!! This is thier searious claim to fame, brakes, if the things fail OMG, all bets are off.

Here's a link to my story from bmwforums.net:
http://www.bmwforums.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=239&start=0

Steve Carlton · 07-06-2005, 11:58 AM

Are there any links in english?

roger albert · 07-06-2005, 12:05 PM

Didn't see any.
The reports were pretty regional in nature.
And it seems clear that, at least for now, BMW isn't going to fully respond even in German, much less translated for the rest of the world.
They'd be scheduled to address the subject at a large rally there, but cancelled about 30 minutes prior, stating that the issue was too complex. Bet their inhouse counsel put the kibosh on that.

ErricZ · 07-06-2005, 02:58 PM

Where are all the BMW Fan Freaks this time? Yelling and screaming that there is NO PROBLEM With these brakes? Come on guys! You know everything! Tell the German Courts that you KNOW there aren't any problems becuase your brakes always work even in "grab-your-ass" mode.

Joe · Joe's Garage

ABS.=.applied brakes sometimes

tiefflieger · 07-06-2005, 04:15 PM

The brake failures are hardly late-breaking news! There's a thread on advrider that's been going on since Dec. of last year. The die-hard BMW fans have been ripping this poor guy a new one!
Check it out:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61479

I hope the German Justice Department is going to do the same to BMW!

Flatbutt1 · 07-06-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roger albert
a former German national supermoto champion who'd wrecked his R1100S (see, this is relevant) at a trackday when the brakes failed at the end of a long straight. .

I didn't knoe the S had an EVO model

Rattus · Rattus's Garage

I think the ABS malfunction business is WAY overhyped by freakazoids like Kaltenbach (check the K1200S forum). Personally, having felt the benefit of ABS III numerous times, and NO malfunctions I would definitely stick with BMW and its ABS even if they can be further improved. I mean, what ABS system is totally 100% reliable? Or any complex system? Still better - MUCH better - than a guarranteed washout of the front wheel in an oily/sandy emergency braking scernario.

Steve Carlton · 07-06-2005, 05:21 PM

I can't read dutch or german, so I don't know the "latest." What I've gathered so far is Alexander Reis has been making a huge internet stink for many months now because BMW wouldn't reimburse him for his loss in selling his R1150GS after he claimed a servo failure. He refused to let BMW inspect his bike. His agenda is tainted with his vendetta against BMW. Not that there isn't merit to his case, but it's hard to tell. I don't see anything more than authorities investigating his (and probably others') claims. I don't see any conclusions against BMW.

I've also noted that many of the servo failures are accompanied by the brake light flashing. I can't see BMW being at fault for a rider ignoring something like that and continuing to ride. The guy who crashed at a training class was engaging the ABS brakes over and over again in a braking exercise. That's not normal usage, and it doesn't concern me. The same goes for holding 8,000 rpms while standing still for 5 minutes.

Also, if there is a servo failure, there is still "residual" braking. Much higher brake lever pressures required, but the bike will still stop.

Personally, until I see otherwise, I'm happy to have the known benefits of an ABS system to the risk of servo failure without a brake light warning, but with residual braking. I think I'm way ahead of the game. All things mechanical have failure rates, and the jury is still out on this. Don't forget, people and children have been killed by airbags, and they're considered a worthwhile trade-off that have saved many more lives than they've taken.

Note: the EVO ABS system is known to be very sensitive to voltages. So, I would suggest not playing games with milking too many years out of one's battery.