Feb Excellence 911 968 986 Comparison

jrl · 12-19-2006, 05:34 AM

Anyone read the Feb comparo yet? I own a similarly modified '84 Carrera and did own an '01 S2000 -- call that ballpark-sorta-similar to the base Boxster. Don't own a 968 but recently drove a 944S2. Very impressed with low/mid punch.

Seems like the article might've underrated the 968 somewhat; author as much as admitted it should've had suspension parity with the 911. My S2K was great, but life got edgy having to live north of 5000rpm.

Also, the 968 "lumpiness" I read about. Don't the old time hot-rodders call that cam lope?

legion · 12-19-2006, 06:15 AM

I've driven a 968, a 944S, and a 951.

I would compare the 944S to an S2000. You had to keep it very high in the rev range (5000+) to make any power. It felt like I was driving a chainsaw. The 951 you just have to keep north of 3000, but mine has sufficient torque to be very drivable in traffic (this contradicts some statements I made prior to fixing the exhaust leak in my crossover pipe). The 968 has a lot of low-end torque. I never felt like it would shutter in a high gear at a low speed. It also felt like I got a "boost" when the variocam kicked in.

Dave L · 12-19-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by legion

I would compare the 944S to an S2000. You had to keep it very high in the rev range (5000+) to make any power. It felt like I was driving a chainsaw.

"driving a chainsaw" I dont know if I should be offended or not, its a funny comment for sure. I have owned a 8v a 16v and have driven a 951 and a 951 with a turbo upgrade. I liked them all for different reasons.

jrl · 12-19-2006, 09:54 AM

My observation of the article was that the Boxster and 911 both had suspension upgrades (think I'm correct on 911), but the 968 was stock non-M030, 16" wheels. I drove several stock 911's before the '84 with extensive upgrades. Huge difference.

All of the cars mentioned above are excellent. Different cars suit different tastes and purposes. S2K and Boxster are low polar moment chassis, 944/968 is 50-50 weight somewhat higher moment, 911--well, you know. Any of these set up correctly handles very well, if differently.

Panzer909 · Panzer909's Garage

They mind as well compare bicycles to goldfish.

legion · 12-19-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave L
"driving a chainsaw" I dont know if I should be offended or not, its a funny comment for sure. I have owned a 8v a 16v and have driven a 951 and a 951 with a turbo upgrade. I liked them all for different reasons.

Don't be offended. I enjoyed the hell out of that car until it caught fire.

callmethewander · callmethewander's Garage

i read it. good reading, but i was disappointed with the author's impressions about the 968. never having driven a boxster or 911 i can't really say, however, i can imagine that you wouldn't have the same light, agile feel in a front engine vehicle as in a rear or mid-engine example as the author stated. I love driving my S2 which is mechanically very similar to the 968. The article made me want to try a boxster but my
goal right now is get a cayman, i'm figuring in ten years or so i might be able to by an '06 or '07.

Schumi · 12-20-2006, 07:42 PM

I have never driven a 968.. but have driven my 924S, a 944, a boxster, some older 911's, and a 996 C4S...

I would actually think I would take a near mint condition 1994 968 over a mid mileage good condition 986 Boxster (non-S) any day. Just because of the exclusivity of the 968, plus performance isn't that different I wouldn't think. Now a Boxster S- that's a different story. Those 3.2 liters are pretty quick.

por944trs · 12-21-2006, 10:10 PM

I have built two 951's 269@rwhp and 315@rwhp respectively. Present driver is a 90' S2 Cab, funny thing is I have come to love each for it own merits. The Cab has a Vitesse MAF and GHL 3" catback, and is shod with Gemballa 18" comp wheels running 295/30/18 rears and 225/40/18 fronts and koni coilovers front and rear. While the S2 dosen't have the horse's it is still a match for stuff running around here, and I can't say as I would trade it for a 986 or a Caymen. Of course the turbo project is starting next year .

speedracing944 · speedracing944's Garage

I haven't gotton my issue yet and I am very sad.

You guys shouldn't post things like this until you are sure everybody has thier magazine in front of them. I have had 4 days of pain and agony awaiting the delivery of my Excellence.

Speedy

legion · 12-27-2006, 01:14 PM

I just read the article. I was kinda disappointed in it. If the 968 or Boxster won, I would have been happy. It seemed the 911 was destined to win.

I really wished they would have driven a M030 968, it's a killer car...

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

Isnt the guy who did this article the same guy that was asking a few months ago for anyone with a 968 to let them 'borrow' there car for a comparo?

I have the magazine but havent read much of it..only got halfway through the 959/GT1/Carrera GT article.

I like how the cover says its there biggest issue ever. Thats because they jam packed this one with advertisements.

Edit - Just read the article. If they felt the 968 dash was '80s...jeez i would hate to see what they would have said about an early 944 / 924S dashboard.

Schumi · 12-27-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
Isnt the guy who did this article the same guy that was asking a few months ago for anyone with a 968 to let them 'borrow' there car for a comparo?

Yep, and they even mention Pelican Parts forums in the article.

I thought that the 968 kinda got thrown off to the side from the start. I don't understand the Dash comment. Wouldn't that 911 have pretty much the same kinda basic dash as the 968? I know they aren't the same, but the 80's 911 dashes aren't nothing to write home about.

Also, both the boxster and the 911 they were driving had upgraded suspension. The 968 was bone stock, not even a M030 model.

They were going for sheer driving pleasure though, and so yea, I guess the 911 was destined to win.

I still would take a mint 968 over an Early 2.5 boxster I think. Justbeacuse of hte exclusivity of the low numbers of the 968 plus I could actually do maintenence on it...

speedracing944 · speedracing944's Garage

They were comparing 2 cars with weight around 2700 lbs and suspension upgrades to a car pushing over 3000 lbs and no suspension upgrades. On basis of pure accleration all 3 cars had similar weight to power ratio but once they started braking and throwing the cars into the corners the 968 was at a disadvantage.

I do like how the did the $20,000 comparo. It would be neat to see a $10,000 and a $5,000 comparo as well. Add in a 914, 928 and other cars in the price range.

Speedy

stout · 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
Isnt the guy who did this article the same guy that was asking a few months ago for anyone with a 968 to let them 'borrow' there car for a comparo?

I like how the cover says its there biggest issue ever. Thats because they jam packed this one with advertisements.

Yep, that's me.

And Jarrod has expressed how excited he was to have been a part of the test and how much he enjoyed the process, so I'm not sure what your question is meant to insinuate...

Frankly, I'm not sure I care -- but get your facts straight when you're going to publically criticize something. Your above statement re: advertisements in Issue #153 is absolutely, positively incorrect.

The 32 pages that were added for the February issue were ENTIRELY extra article pages meant as a thank you to our readers. The exact number is 67 pages of feature articles in the Dec., 2006 issue to 99.5 pages of feature articles in the Feb., 2007 issue. You can count them for yourself if you don't believe me. It's easily done.

Frankly, I'm growing about as tired of the usual "Excellence is a catalog" rumblings as I am of the "Excellence is all about 911s" silliness. We like all Porsches, and a look through our back issues pages will prove it.

Are there a lot of ads? You betcha, but we wouldn't exist without them or be able to deliver nearly 2,000 pages of pure Porsche content to your door for $23 per year. I pay twice that every month for internet access at home.... I don't think there's any comparison in terms of value, but then that's just my own opinion, and something that will differ for everyone.

As for editorial content, here's the facts:

-When I arrived in 1997, Excellence was running at 70 percent advertising (this includes the 16-20 pages of classifieds at the back, our back issues pages, our Tech Notes ads, etc.) and roughly 35 feature pages (articles) in addition to Tech Notes, Letters, Commentary, etc.

-Over the last few years, Excellence has been running 60-62 percent advertising routinely, with 65-70 pages of feature articles. That's double the articles with about the same advertising pages.

-We hang out around 200 pages of pure Porsche content each issue as compared to 128-144 pages in most of the "big" books. We've never taken tobacco or alcohol advertising and have always refused "lifestyle" ads of no real interest to our readers; here's why: We want the ads to be a resource for our readers. No bull.

Look, there are a lot of fair criticisms about my story here and on 968forums.com. I took a lot of heat (and knew I would) for calling it like I saw it impartially. If you doubt that I did, there's nothing I can ever say that will convince you. But I won't be losing sleep over it.

http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=3332&st=40&gopid=29589&#entry29589

Above all, my piece was written to entertain, even if there's a barb in there here and there. There was good and there was bad about all three cars, and the 968 was still in the running for me until it was painfully obvious that -- in this group -- it wasn't up to the task at hand.

The story was also written to learn more about a Porsche I've always liked and still do, and that Porsche is the 968.

It was a first stab at something new, and a lot was learned. A lot can be improved.

Best regards,

pete

Schumi · 01-03-2007, 09:58 AM

No hostility here...

Ed first off as a member of the watercooled community I wish to thank you and the others at Excellence for having the 20K$ comparo. I thought it was a great article, nevertheless the outcome. Such an article is the sort of thing that this community, at least I, like to see as it is something to relate to. We can't all afford to have new 997's, some of us not even 993's. So to see an article like that in Feb's Excellence is a treat.

Now we around here like to analyze things pretty in depth and please do not take anything the wrong way. I am sure above all we all appreciate the article. We are all very admirable of out cars here.

If the story was written to learn more about the 968 maybe you should have done or still should do a story solely on the 968. Instead of comparing it to the greats just look at it for what it is supposed to be- a pinnacle of styling that would set the tone for Porsche through the 90's... an engineering marvel that is the chassis that had been around nearly 20 years and was still one of the best handling cars in the world... and also the economical, entry level car that was as practical as it was sporty.

If you look at the car for what it is and not stand it next to the others, I am sure it will impress the hell out of you. And I think that is what people around here are trying to express.

-Mike

Eldorado · 01-03-2007, 10:16 AM

got a better comparison for you.. next issue, compare a 924 with a 951...

stout · 01-03-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eldorado
got a better comparison for you.. next issue, compare a 924 with a 951...

Now HERE'S some constructive criticism... thanks!

pete

jrl · 01-03-2007, 10:46 AM

Mike put it very well. When I started this thread my main point was that suspension parity of the 968 with the 911 and 986 might've changed some of the drivers' opinions of it.

I certainly didn't count words in the article but came away with the perception that the 968 got the least amount of coverage. A 968-only article is a great idea.

I take the amount of advertising in Excellence, 911 & PW, and GT Porsche as indicators of the health of interest and support for 15-30 year old cars produced in relatively small numbers. How many mid-80's Buick mags are there? I'm grateful I can easily get pretty much anything needed/wanted for my cars. Will also 'fess up that I spend a good percentage of magazine time looking at the ads.

legion · 01-03-2007, 12:01 PM

Pete, thank you for the article. Please don't read my comment as "Excellence only likes 911s". I was just dissapointed that my boy lost.

I have taken note that the adverstising in Excellence is all about Porsches and I do appreciate it. I have made more than one purchase because of advertisements I've seen in Excellence, and have used articles in the tech section. In fact, I pulled the AC in my 951 specifically because of an article I saw in the magazine.

As an aside, I really enjoyed the 959/GT1/CGT comparison. The 959 is the car that made me want to own a Porsche, it was nice to see how it stacks up against more modern supercars. Now if only you could get your hands on one of the eight factory roadgoing 962s...

Anyway, keep up the good work.