Free 912E what to do?

[johncj8989]

I just picked up a 76 912E for nothing. The car was converted to a widebody and the interior is pristine. Engine runs well but is kinda tired. I'm trying to decide what to do with the car... 3.6 swap perhaps. Seein Mr. Olsens project has got me drooling on myself. The body is pretty solid though the rear flares are custom and are HUGE so they will be replaced. Maybe another backdated car??? Hmmm



I welcome any suggestions.......... and yes smart @ss replies will be accepted as I have been known to post a few myself in the past.

[pwd72s]

How far are you from the Atlantic? A '76 912E would serve well as a mooring anchor...

[Tyson Schmidt]

Leave the flares.

Swap in a 930 engine and early (Short) 930 trans.

Or:

Back-date the front and rear and make a '73 RSR. Install a nice 3.2 liter.

The 3.6 swap is a lot more expensive than it appears initially. Especially if you track it.

[Moses]

The flares are never too wide unless you can mount duals back there. Then again, you're from the Ozarks and there might be some local appeal there.

[johncj8989]

Yeah Moses or you could buy the car... you could put some huge tires under those flares and they might give you some sort of floatation ability. It will come in handy when your state slides into the Pacific.

I dont really need the car anyway it was a freeby and I already covet my 911.

[emcon5]

934.

See Waynes project thread, you are already most of the way there.

Tom

[diverdan]

Flat sixes are cool, but so are fours. A friend of mine is currently building one of those type IVs with 450 horsepower! The lighter engine is also a nice bonus. So why not go with an awesome original type engine and go for light weight. Economically, I'd shoot for around 200 horsepower and do the reasonable lightening. I'm not sure about my friend's 450 horsepower budget but I think it is somewhere between 6 to 10 k USD.

Diverdan

[johncj8989]

Surprisingly the 912 is a pretty nimble little car. I dont want to drive the 911 everyday so maybe the flat 4 will be a decent alternative. Sure it doesnt have the balls of the 6 but its a pretty smooth little engine gets, great mileage, I can use it as a commuter and keep the mileage down on my Benz, and if it blows up maybe i'll consider sticking a 6 in it. Or maybe a v8.... hee hee hee. You guys couldnt rip me to shreds for putting a v8 in a 912E .... what did someone call it... a "mooring anchor"

[Rot 911]

Keep in mind that the 76E engine is unique to that year and is substantially more expensive to get parts for than previous 912 engines. You might want to post on the 912 board and see what they have to say.

[sammyg2]

Can you elaborate on the 450 hp type 4? I'm sure many of us would be curious how he got that much. Thanks.

[kristian85]

Originally posted by johncj8989
I just picked up a 76 912E for nothing. The car was converted to a widebody and the interior is pristine. Engine runs well but is kinda tired. I'm trying to decide what to do with the car... 3.6 swap perhaps.

I welcome any suggestions.......... and yes smart @ss replies will be accepted as I have been known to post a few myself in the past.

OK, stick the ML430 motor in it and pitch that SUV into a canyon somewhere....

No, seriously, why not get the flares back to SC flares, make an ultralite 912, hotrod the four (you know, one seat, no interior, F/G, teeny battery, hollow torsion bars, no heat, plastic windows, etc.), and make the best handling 911/912 the world's ever seen? You should be able to get that thing down to <2,000 lbs.

[pwd72s]

Hey, I was kidding! After all "smart ass replies" were invited...

[david c.]

Paul, really nice comment. -- Especially from the perspective of a 912E owner who has owned two 911s, a 928S and a 944 and sold them all in favor of his 912E. Just out of curiosity, exactly how many of the 2099 912E models have you driven? Or is your comment the regurgitation of experiences of others, about which you may have read?

Kurt, don't scare him about the engine! Actually, I can't think of one 912E engine component that is expensive or rare compared to the early 912 motors. Certainly, rebuilding a hot-rod 912E motor would be leaps and yards less expensive than a 912 or 911 motor. Granted, the exhaust is unique and the injection is a little different than a 914, but that's about it. For the most part, the engine itself is not unique. I have Webers (40IDF) which are easy to find and tune. I have also had a custom header built for under $200. Bursch sells 912E exhaust parts as well.

My own experience with the 912E has been remarkable. It is reliable, light, not nearly as tail happy as a 911 and unique.

The Type IV motor can be made to make surprising amounts of power. The 914 board, Jake Raby's website and the Type IV shoptalk forum all have plenty of info on this. Don't forget, the 912E motor is largely aluminum and weighs considerably less than a 911 motor.

I have done a bunch of the typical suspension modifications to my 912E. The engine is stock displacement and CR, but with carbs and a Permatune. Stock HP in a 912E is 86. Mine might have a few more, but probably well under 100.

For what it's worth, my 912E is consistently faster than several 911s, 944s and 914s at local autocrosses. There is but one guy with a well-prepped 73E who is consistently faster. Of course, a 911 is an AS or ASP car and a 912E is an HS or FSP car.

[ScotMcLean]

As the owner of #86 (912E) I'd like to second David's comments. They are great cars and I recently had a former 911 owner contact me for a lead on 912E as he, like David, found them to be great, relatively hassle free cars. A Yugo (or in light of recent news, a BMW) might serve well as a boat anchor.

If you do decide to go the 3.0-3.6 route with it, let the 912E owners know you have parts available on the 912 board. While parts are not impossible to find and modifications are numerous, the 912E owner's in California in particular can use certain parts.

Congrats on a great gift and please consider registering it on the 912Registry.org (even with modifications, etc.)

Scott
69 912
76 912E
99 Bike S

[ZAMIRZ]

I'd really like to see pics of the car, wondering just how wide those flares are. If it was me, I'd swap in a 3.3 turbo with the earlier short bellhousing tranny with a K27 and drive it every day.

later,

amir

[Rot 911]

David and Scott, keep in mind I ended my suggestions with "You might post on the 912 board and see what they have to say." I always defer to those more knowledgeable than me! Which is just about everybody.

[cegerer]

Hey Trent ....errrrr .... Paul, might I suggest you reconcile your insensitive remarks by posting an apology on the 912 Registery BBS, appearing on 912 Entertainment TV, and maybe taking a tour of the old 912 factory in Germany ..... -- Curt

[Wayne 962]

Pluuuuzeeeee! What mis-info here!!!

First of all, the 912E is a one-off car that has a bunch of very expensive parts that are very difficult to find (exhaust / fuel injection). You can probably part out the exhaust and fuel injection stuff and still have plenty of $$$ to buy a 911 engine.

Okay, now to squash the BS. 450 HP in a Type IV *may* only work for a drag motor that will measure life in minutes. All of us 914 people know that anything above 100HP in these cars will shorten their life considerably. Yes, you can get more and almost reach the 150-200 range if you spend a lot of time and money. But those engines only last 5000-10000 miles. THe VW engines are weak engines by design (just look at the cracking of the heads). The Porsche engines (take the 911SC engine for example) was based on the 935 which output more than 800HP.

There's really no comparison - the Type IV is *not* a performance engine, and will never match the 911 engine in performance. As much as I love 914s, that four-cylinder is a bug engine through and through...

-Wayne

[david c.]

I don't think anyone would disagree with Wayne that the 911 engine is a completely different and generally superior animal. Clearly, the 912E is not superior to a 911. But that doesn't make it a bad car. It's simply different.

I for one wouldn't want a T4 engine with a lifespan measured in minutes. But Jake Raby does claim his T4 motors are very reliable and last for many many miles.

And, as Wayne reiterated, the expensive parts are in the FI and the exhaust -- both of which can be inexpensively replaced with other systems if originality is not your goal. Judging from the original post, originality does not sound all that important!

[COLDBASS]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Pluuuuzeeeee! What mis-info here!!!

First of all, the 912E is a one-off car that has a bunch of very expensive parts that are very difficult to find (exhaust / fuel injection). You can probably part out the exhaust and fuel injection stuff and still have plenty of $$$ to buy a 911 engine.
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Expensive, yes. Thermal Reactors, stock muffler, Engine tin, motor mount, L-Jet. They are all expensive if you are looking to replace...
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Yes, you can get more and almost reach the 150-200 range if you spend a lot of time and money. But those engines only last 5000-10000 miles. THe VW engines are weak engines by design (just look at the cracking of the heads.
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If you are truly interested, Check out STF forums. Many daily drivers w/Type IVs in the 150-200 hp range w/more than 10k miles.

Heads Cracking? Addressed by reinforcing Known specific weak area areas during machining. You may wish to read the articles in VW Trends earlier this year with a how-to procedure...
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Wayne no disrespect intended, its just that I have heard the old defacto "cracked head"/dropped valve seat argument one too many times...

-Wayne