Dodgy engine number?
 

Hi all

I've been looking at a '76 2.7L that has had a 3.3L turbo engine fitted. There's zero history on the mod or the car, and while it's been successfully registered, I'm hearing whispers around the Porschaphiles locally that the engine may have been "reborn". It's not coming up with any history as having been stolen and the VIN and engine number match the rego. However, the engine number looks a bit weird - not very well stamped. At least it seems to match the range for a 1985 3.3L turbo, 221kW and the 930.66 stamp a bit further back.

Would really appreciate you knowledgeable people giving your views whether this stamp looks legitimate.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588569566.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588569566.jpg

The vin. # looks very shallow maybe a new case restamped ?

A better picture of the engine number would help, as the shape of the numbers can help identify. Also I do not see the two stars that usually bracket in the engine numbers.

Rahl

This is the best I can do at the moment - just an enlargement of the previous photo. I'll ask the owner to send some better photos.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588661236.jpg

In my opinion and experience, that surface has been machined and number restamped, and yes, missing the stars that should bracket the number.

My opinion is that this engine is just a part now. Those numbers do look questionable but I doubt it would hinder my decision to buy the car if it’s a good overall vehicle.
Do your homework on the history of the car and make sure somehow that no funny business has occurred with theft but I’d buy it.
Give more details on the car.

I have heard that in the "old days", the "way back when" days ('80's)
the factory allowed 1 beer at lunch. This is what happens at a 3 beer lunch.

Here are some images of my case stampings from an ‘87 930. Just for a point of reference for you.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588692832.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588692926.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588693001.jpg

Mine are similar to Rich's.

Stars on the start and end of the engine serial.

The font looks the same on mine.

On the OP's engine serial, looks like a restamp, and the numbers are not aligned. The font doesn't look like the factory stamps I've seen.

Decoding the number that is there, does it match the car/engine as the seller is presenting it? In the 30-40 years since it left the factory there could be any number of reasons it ended up restamped.

Have you already paid for/plan to pay for a PPI? And not a "drive around the block, kick the tires" but an actual, pull the valve covers, check headstuds and cams PPI?

I don't understand what is being inferred by "reborn". Are people implying that it was stolen and then restamped to conceal?

Those numbers clearly were NOT stamped by Porsche. Whatever the intention was of the person who did this, and thus how ‘at risk’ you become as the owner of it, is less clear. If I were considering buying this car, the price would definitely get a haircut due to the shadiness around this car’s engine. That’s just my two cents.

It might have been a new fact. case, they did came without a stamped #, and it doesn’t look its surface has been machined down.,in the old days it was quite common to re-stamp new cases, a few years ago a friend bought a new cam timing cover for a 356 it was blank , I stamped the right numbers with oem stamps,just saying.
Jay.

thanks for all the responses.

@quattrorunner - there is zero history on the car, just that the owner had it for 5 years and it's has rego. No maintenance history, no date when the engine was installed - a complete blank. For some reason, the owner isn't able (or willing) to give more info - I'm working through a dealer that has it after part swapping it for another car.

@rich76_911s - thanks for the pics. That's the sort of stamping I'd expect and it's obviously not anything like what you've got there!

@donbecker1234 - I haven't done the PPI yet, but given the lack of history, a comprehensive check would be an absolute must. The VIN doesn't match the engine as it's a '76 body and what looks like an '85 engine but they're not claiming matching numbers. As the car is interstate, I'm not able to test-drive it but did have a friend do so and he said it was the fastest car he's driven, so someone has done a few tweaks to the engine - it's got a K27 (don't know which one yet) and from the driving, seems pretty heavily boosted, but still quite driveable off-boost. When I was talking about it potentially being "reborn", that's what I'm hearing from three different sources that the car comes with a "dark, dark past"... But then, people love spreading rumours, don't they.:)

@JMS935 - it'd need a serious haircut to account for the lack of history and this dodgy engine stamp.

@fever - maybe someone has stamped a new case, but without your access to OEM stamps, obviously!


The car seems pretty good mechanically (PPI dependent!) with decent interior/exterior and goes like stink, but given this feedback, the risk that somehow it is found to be stolen and the lack of history, I think I'll need to pass it up.

An inspection by a knowledgeable Porsche mechanic found that the chassis number has been welded in and the engine number restamped. The car has poor leak-down results with one cylinder 60% down and reasonable oil leaks on one bank. The car also appears to have been converted from LHD to RHD but the mechanic didn't look too closely at this at the time. On the plus side, the car is in good condition, may have the turbo rear suspension (the mechanic thought it did from memory but would need to refresh) and for those who want it, it makes big power (despite the leak-down), as attested to by a brave test pilot from this forum.

These issues may not matter much to some people because at the right price this would be a great car but for me, the risk that car was reborn is enough to scare me off. 😪

Run, it aint worth a penny as it is, maybe for parts.

I would buy a car with a "salvaged" title long before buying what you are describing here.

Maybe, just maybe if my intent was a track only weekend racer, but that would be the only situation I would consider this shady ass car. And then it had better be real cheap.

My .02 worth.

Mark

And you might have some issues with the authorities, not worth the chance, just saying., Jay.

Yep, I’m definitely moving on from this one!

Ya refreshed or reborn is one thing but stolen another thing..

Get the casting numbers off the case halves. They should be visible from the bottom side. That’s something that can’t be faked.

Thanks Matt. I’ve asked for the build number on the dash rail and will try to match that to the chassis number. Any idea who to reach out to about that?

Totally irrelevant. It’s a 1976 911. Those numbers have nothing to do with a 3.3l turbo engine being in the car. It’s a bastard build. When trying to determine whether to buy it numbers matching isn’t part of the math. All that really matters is whether or not this engine is healthy and as advertised. It may not be a 3.3 turbo engine case and just built to turbo spec.

There is also a chassis 3 on the lip of the smugglers box.

Mark

Hi Matt - it's not totally irrelevant as I'm trying to establish if the chassis number that is welded in is from this car or another (in which case someone may have welded it in to a new chassis to try and rebirth a stolen car). I don't care about numbers matching. The motor is not healthy anyway, with 60% leakdown in one cylinder and 10-15% in others, so any purchase would need to come at a discount to deal with fixing that issue.

Just find another car. This one has way too many issues.

Sorry, I sometimes speed read a thread. I was responding to post #20, but didn’t read post #13 on my first read. Hard pass on this car. it’s nothing special and everything questionable.