CV removal pain- RANT!

[mark houghton]

My nickname will soon be Mr. Rant, the way I'm going lately.

On my back with 8mm allen wrench in hand, trying to remove the 6 bolts for the outer CV to eventually replace the torn boot. Had to resort to my air impact driver but got them all loose. But impossible to lift the axle above the hub without removing the entire axle. So be it...let's attack the inner CV as well.

Yeah...right...and thus my rant. Can only get two of the bolts loose, too much corrosion within the flange threads most likely. Managed to get a few drops of PB Blaster on the ends but doubt it will help. May have to resort to torching the flange.

Tips/tricks/ideas? Having more fun than a person should be allowed.

[Alan L]

Easy - relatively.
Take the wheel off. Use a long extension, or two joined together to reach in past the outer hub, to the CVJ. Attach a 8mm allen head socket to your extension drive, then you can crank on it with your ratchet, or breaker bar if needed. The torque to set these is around 60# from memory. That is how I torque them. If you don't have the 8mm allen head socket, you can use a regular 8mm socket and chop a bit of allen key up to fit in it.
What may help if they are really stuck is to whack the head of the allen bolt with a sharp blow. Ideally you would have a drift or something sitting on the head so you can hit it nice and square.
Or - if you have an impact wrench/gun, put that on the end of your extension bar with the 8mm socket head. Will work for sure.
Now, how am I supposed to get the gear knob off my gear shift? May be posting my own rant soon.
Alan

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by Alan L

What may help if they are really stuck is to whack the head of the allen bolt with a sharp blow. Ideally you would have a drift or something sitting on the head so you can hit it nice and square.
Or - if you have an impact wrench/gun, put that on the end of your extension bar with the 8mm socket head. Will work for sure.
Now, how am I supposed to get the gear knob off my gear shift? May be posting my own rant soon.
Alan

I have an 8mm socket head, on my air powered wrench thing. Got the outer CV bolts off, but so far only 2 of the inner ones. Need to remove the entire axle just to replace the outer CV. Whacking the bolt heads with a drift usually works for frozen things but not certain I can get enough clearance underneath to get a good whack-job on them. I don't want to just put huge torque on them with a 3 foot cheater bar...that's how bolts break or heads strip.
Alan, this should be an easy job comparatively speaking. May have to resort to judicious/localized heat via propane torch as a last resort. If I had the luxury of a car hoist...like someone I know...sure would help matters

[Alan L]

I agree - leaning on them with massive torque ain't the answer.
I would try and whack them from outside the wheel hub - ie use a long bar of steel- 2' or similar - or the extension bars from the socket set. You should get enough clearance to get to 1 or 2 at a time, then release the handbrake and rotate for the next couple. That is how I torque them. I only get 2 or 3 at a go. It may also help to give the CV hub a whack between the bolts. Pretty solid metal - unlikely to damage anything. If you need heat you will need it on the back of the CVJ. Probably not likely to harm anything as long as localised . I would try whacking them first. Don't know about yours, but my air impact wrench is a bit on the weak side. At a guess I think I get a max of about 60# out of it. I recently bought a battery one - around 150#. That is really what you need I suspect.
My air wrench won't undo the cam nuts - 90#.
Regards
Alan

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by Alan L

It may also help to give the CV hub a whack between the bolts. Pretty solid metal - unlikely to damage anything. If you need heat you will need it on the back of the CVJ. Probably not likely to harm anything as long as localised . I would try whacking them first. Don't know about yours, but my air impact wrench is a bit on the weak side. At a guess I think I get a max of about 60# out of it. I recently bought a battery one - around 150#. That is really what you need I suspect.
My air wrench won't undo the cam nuts - 90#.
Regards
Alan

Thanks again. I suspect my cheap Chinese air impact isn't up to the task, I bought it last year just to remove wheel lug nuts rusted/frozen on the trailer for my snowcat, and it barely did the job. Gonna try whacking the crap outa things if I can get enough hammer throw in limited confines.

[mark houghton]

Discovered I have a 2 foot long half inch drive extension...now I don't have to crawl underneath!
Attached the 8mm Allen, snugged it into the bolt head, and gave a few solid raps with a sledge hammer. Still no luck. Next, put some heat to the flange but no way to get it hot enough without risking/destroying the otherwise good CV and/or the shaft seal into the transaxle. Still no-go.

My air ratchet gun must not have enough poop, though rated at 500 Chinese ft-lbs. It has a hard time (if at all) taking off lug nuts torqued to 65 pounds. I should have enough compressor cfm per the gun's specs, but I bet it's overated. You get what you pay for on Amazon.

May follow Alan's advice and buy a battery operated gun.Recommendations?
I would rather spend $$ on a tool vs some shop that would charge 4 times the cost of the tool.

I think I would rather being adjusting valves at this point (well, maybe not). At least that little saga is done.

[Alan L]

Wow, they must be frozen tight.
Yes, dropping the shock bolt should help. It will let the torsion bar unwind completely. You may need a hydraulic jack to get it back up enough.
If I was going to try heat I would apply max heat on the back of the bolt thread for a short period - spot heat as fast/hot as possible for a short time . I doubt you can harm the CVJ, but the axel seal would be a concern.
Good luck.

[908/930]

I would not be hitting anything too hard with a hammer, there are bearings in there. Rent a 120v 3/4 drive Makita impact wrench, reduce it down at the socket. I have one and it always works. If you are using any extension with your impact that is a problem.

[gsxrken]

I have a nice Ingersol Rand impact that’s up to most jobs, but my Mom (go ahead, bring it ) gave me a Home Depot gift certificate and I picked this beast up. I don’t think I’ve taken the IR air gun out since I bought it. This will loosen or break anything I own.

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by 908/930

I would not be hitting anything too hard with a hammer, there are bearings in there. Rent a 120v 3/4 drive Makita impact wrench, reduce it down at the socket. I have one and it always works. If you are using any extension with your impact that is a problem.

Understood. I didn't get too carried away with hammering. So to your comment...the problem with an extension is the risk of not keeping it aligned with the bolt head, getting it off-angle and stripping the allen head?

[908/930]

Using an extension with an impact tool will absorb a lot of the energy like a rubber band. Also, wear safety glasses, when those hex bits explode they go everywhere.

What diameter air line are you using to your impact driver? Possibly try a short length large inside dia hose.

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by 908/930

Using an extension with an impact tool will absorb a lot of the energy like a rubber band. Also, wear safety glasses, when those hex bits explode they go everywhere.

What diameter air line are you using to your impact driver? Possibly try a short length large inside dia hose.

Good points, it's all physics. 5.0 cfm @90 psi, I think it's just a 1/4" hose 50 feet long...so certainly losing some juice along the way. I use my compressor most for blowing out my sprinklers and running a paint gun, neither of which require a lot of air volume.

[908/930]

I just tried to fit my 3/4 Makita impact in the space you are working with, does not fit. Penetrating oil and time.

[mark houghton]

You guys are all stellar with your offered help. I may have to break down and buy a Dewalt for $200, and another $100 for the battery (or renting, good idea) but first gonna try to drop the trailing arm via shock mount removal, to be able to raise the axle out of the arm's recess to get to the circlip that holds the CV to the axle and remove it. Would negate the issue I have with dismounting the inner CV and the entire axle.

[908/930]

On the bolts you did remove do you see any traces of red loctite?

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by 908/930

On the bolts you did remove do you see any traces of red loctite?

I hope not, but haven't actually removed them yet...just broke them free. The outboard CV bolts loosened up OK with the impact but I haven't looked at them either. Seems loctite would be overkill but who knows what people do. But, if this were the case, then some gradual heating would let them free.

[Alan L]

There are people on here that have posted of those bolts continually loosening. I never had that issue, but maybe others have used red loctite.
When dropping the trailing arm, put the hydraulic jck under it to take the weight, pull the bolt, then let the jack down.
I think the balls in the CVJ will be OK with the whacks - the housing is a solid compressed unit and the balls sit freely inside. But fair point. But I doubt you have done any harm.
Good luck - what a PITA job going south. Like many on 40 yo cars.
I would put more money on my battery impact wrench than the air one, which is why I bought the battery one a few months ago. Got sick of the air one failing me.
Alan

[mark houghton]

This early in the morning...or late in the afternoon, depending in which side of the pond you're on, I'm trying not to unleash my extensive vocabulary of swear words.
Jacked up the trailing arm just enough to take the weight off the shock to remove the bolt. Big 22mm head, socket on air air wrench...no go - no surprise. Tried 18" cheater bar, no go - no surprise. F... me.

Looks like my only resort is to purchase a monster battery powered wrench as already discussed. Some of these quote as much as 1400 ft/lb of reverse torque, though I find that hard to believe (maybe that's some sort of instantaneous impact figure). A person would need a 10 foot cheater bar to get that kind of torque.

Would appear it's time to crack out the credit card. Home Depot has choices, just a 20 minuute drive and a few hundred bucks. Ken shared his Dewalt XR at 1750 ft/lbs. I'll be looking for one, or any other models that you folks may suggest.

Too early in the day for cracking open a beer, but tempted.

[Alan L]

So I think what I would do, in order;
Have a beer. Maybe two, or more.
Get a battery impact wrench. You are probably going to need it for other stuff on the car anyway, by the looks of it. (I don't use my air one anymore - and it isn't a cheap chinese. Had it for years.) Try that on both the strut bolt and the inner CVJ. It would be worth freeing the strut bolt even if not needed. While you are in there. I don't know if they are adjustable for torque. Mine seems to rely on how hard you squeeze the trigger. But you should be safe at around 100# on the 8mm bolts.
If that still doesn't help, I would go back to heat on the inner CVJ bolts (the back flange). But the trick is to get max amount of heat in a small area as quick as possible. To avoid heat soaking the whole inner/gbox shaft. I have oxy gas and would use a small tip and try and concentrate the heat just on that bolt end. Don't know how close you can get to that scenario. Then use the extension and the battery impact gun.
Good luck
Alan

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by Alan L

So I think what I would do, in order;
Have a beer. Maybe two, or more.
Get a battery impact wrench. You are probably going to need it for other stuff on the car anyway, by the looks of it. Try that on both the strut bolt and the inner CVJ

Pretty much my plan Alan. Heating the flange a bit iffy. I just have a hardware store MAP gas torch, no oxy acetylene, so really can't get the intense localized heat. My plasma cutter if held way back would produce a lot of heat but extremely risky...like, extremely. Best case scenario the impact pops them off. Worse case it doesn't, or even worse it breaks them off. Let's not forget that I was able to get 2 of the 6 loose with my Chinese impact.

Local Home Depot running a sale on the Dewalt, half off at $250. Whatever, tools are always good things to have when you need them.