Air conditioner for 930 Turbo

[freesaints]

Hey all, I'm looking for any recommendations on retrofitting my 1987 930 Turbo with a modern AC system. It's currently an AC delete car but that's just not cutting it in Austin TX.

Searching the forums, it looks like the names that keep popping up are Griffiths, Classic Retrofit (electric) and Classic Auto air. Has anyone had these installed? Would love to hear how they've performed, especially in any climate like Texas in the summer (100+ temps).

I've gotten a quote from the guys at Classic Auto air and have been assured that it would remain cold in the cabin even during the summer months. Budget is also an issue. I've heard good things about Classic Retrofit but at almost double the cost (from what I can tell), it would have to perform that much better to go that route. My two main criteria are cost and performance. I don't race the car so things like amp draw or weight savings don't matter as much to me. Something that can simply keep me cool at a decent price.

Thoughts?

[speednme1]

Does your car already have factory ac components installed? If so Griffiths is the way to go. Replacing the line alone can nake a difference if everything else is working as it should. I did a full Griffiths upgrade on my previous 930(minus the compressor)...it blew very cold!

[scottrx7tt]

My car was not an original 930 but I had turbo conversion with a large deck mount intercooler. I bought 2 964/993 condenser cores and put 1 in the front fender, 1 in the rear fender, added some electric fans. Made my own lines. I used the stock evaporator core, and stock compressor. I was able to get temps in the low 40s on high speed. If the blower had a bit more velocity that would have helped a ton. If you want something more, someone is making an electric A/C set up that is supposed to be the bees knees.

[1979-930]

I up-graded mine with the Classic Auto Air system. I think their Porsche distribution division is in Austin or near there. I think the Griffiths stuff is better, but I wanted a turn key kit. I have nothing bad to say about Classic other than the instructions were lacking. You need to be able to figure out thinks on your own. Some brackets and routing will need slight modifications to fit.

There is a thread by HotEuro where he installed AC in a non-AC car that will help you. I'll try to find it.


Found It
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/842475-retroair-complete-system-my-non-c-car.html


Edit.
Ok this is weird. Looking at my link from Tapatalk it shows a wiring issue question. When I click the link it’s the correct AC link I posted.
Anyone else seeing this??

[lee88]

My car had factory A/C but prior owner swapped components over with Griffiths / Kuehl setup (original York piston compressor, etc remains with the car if I want to restore to stock). The system works very well, very cold vent temps. He added the supplemental vent below the dash as the early 3.0L Turbos have tiny dash vents and down provide sufficient air, with your later 3.3L and larger vents may not be needed.

[T77911S]

i went with Griffiths.
all new lines ,new coils. I used my compressor as the car only had 40k miles on it when I bought it and it came from up north, so I don't think it saw much use.

anyway, it keeps the car comfortable here in SC 90 degree+heat. I don't usually drive it when its real hot as I don't want to park it in the sun unless I am going someplace and not going to stay long.
vent temps vary from 40 to 50. not sure if my coil is not freezing up.

just a note, the fins on his condensers are very soft and you have to handle them very carefully.

[Bucketlist]

[QUOTE=1979-930;10132011]

There is a thread by HotEuro where he installed AC in a non-AC car that will help you. I'll try to find it.

Found It
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/842475-retroair-complete-system-my-non-c-car.html

Thanks to 1979-930 for posting my link above. I think Retroaire is gone but absorbed by one of the others. I think Rock that owned it was in Austin.
Still as cold as day 1....secrets are new technology in the evaporator and condenser cores along with adding the condenser fan.
Good luck!

[freesaints]

Thanks guys, the feedback is appreciated. 1979-930 and Hot Euro, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

speednme1 - I still have most of the original components (blower fan, condenser, etc) but they've been removed at some point in the past and never reinstalled. So, I can either reinstall and use certain upgraded components or purchase an all new turnkey system.

scottrx7tt - there are a few threads going about Classic Retrofit in the UK making a pretty good electric system but a full kit is going to run almost 4K. Not sure if there's another company out there that you're referring to. If so, would love to look into them.

Yeah, the guys over at Classic Auto air are over in Dallas, so are familiar with the TX heat and they assured me that their system works well in our environment.

[Mocker]

Griffiths. Did the complete kit--modern modern parallel condenser in the decklid+ 2 more (with fans) in the left rear fender, plus all new lines, compressor, dryer, evaporator, and adjustable center vent (I have a '79).

Keeps the car very comfy in 95 degree weather.

The cost is high (esp. if you farm out the work), but in the end you have a car you can enjoy year-round.

[TurboKraft]

Originally Posted by scottrx7tt

My car was not an original 930 but I had turbo conversion with a large deck mount intercooler. I bought 2 964/993 condenser cores and put 1 in the front fender, 1 in the rear fender, added some electric fans. Made my own lines. I used the stock evaporator core, and stock compressor. I was able to get temps in the low 40s on high speed. If the blower had a bit more velocity that would have helped a ton. If you want something more, someone is making an electric A/C set up that is supposed to be the bees knees.

We've done similar setups, 993 condensers (factory R134a serpentine), also using a Griffiths serpentine evap core and a rotary compressor.
Ice cold vent temps despite 110F+ ambient temps.
The quality of the fans is paramount. Original 964/993, or Spal.
Make stone guards for the condensers.

[freesaints]

TurboKraft - sounds like the only component you sourced from Griffiths was the serpentine evap core and rotary compressor?

Also, where did you source the 993 condensers and fans from? Ebay, Griffiths, Pelican, etc?

Any opinion on how your setup would compare to a turnkey kit from Classic Auto air?

I won't be wrenching on my own car for this, so trying to figure out convenience, cost and performance.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the wealth of info here.

[TurboKraft]

The 1984- 911 already has a rotary A/C compressor, otherwise yes, buy someone's retrofit kit.

Condensers are <$150/ea new.
Good used assemblies including fans can be found by calling the usual salvage yards in Excellence mag or found on eBay.
A/C lines we crimp locally. The newer gen barrier hoses are also a lot smaller O.D. than the original 930 A/C lines so they're easier to route.

You'll definitely have time into it if you don't want to purchase a complete finished package from Griffiths or Classic.

[freesaints]

Chris - awesome, thanks!

[aschen]

I have upgraded much of my stock system with a Grifiths kit. The intruction manual comes bound and they include every little fastener and item. They seem really OCD in a good way. My stock config system with upgraded stock location components is good enough for me. It wont freeze you out if its 105 degrees outside but it will pull the cabin down to pleasant levels (maybe mid 70s). If it is "only" 95 out it can freeze you out.

The closest thing I have to a complaint is the blower is quite loud with the powerful upgraded blower.

The electrical AC does look interesting and potentially compelling however.

[ivanuf]

I am installing my 3rd Classic auto Air system and here is what I learned from my previous installs and some background information:

1. I am in Puerto Rico and the colder it gets is around 80’s in December.
2. The complete system of Classic Auto works good when the weather in on the 80’s.
3. You need really cool air specially when the sun is hitting your driver door glass and windshield due to the proximity of the glass to the driver and the temp is in the 90’s+.
4. The system performs better when the vehicle is moving, but on a 90+ degree day and stuck in traffic, you will feel that the system is not cool enough.

What I did to improve a good system:

It is all about the lack of room for extra condensers, here is where Griffin system makes a difference, the lack of condensation specially when the vehicle is stationary is the weak point of the car/system.

I get the complete system from Classic Auto ( waiting for one now) and the fan upgrade for the new front condenser.

Install #1
A complete system with new front condenser and the non-turbo lid condenser, I was able to get low 50’s vent temperature on 90+ degree weather and a stationary vehicle, with the addition of a Pro Cooler drier from Rennair I was able to lower this temperature to the high 30’s and low 40’s. This addition took the system to a whole new level and droped the temperature on the vent to the required temp on really hot days, also it improved sustancialy the ACperformance when the vehicle was not moving and in traffic. I feel that this Drier should be part of the system, but since it is propietary from RenAir they will not admit to it or recomended it.

Install #2
With the same system and a new front condenser and non-turbo lid condenser I tried a fender condenser that I got from Nostagic AC.
https://nostalgicac.com/14-x-18-remote-condenser-w-fan-aluminum-shroud.html
This one I installed inside the rear bumper, but can also be installed in the front with the removal of the windshield washer resevoir.

Note: this condenser was installed on a rear fibreglass 964 style bumper I have not tried to install this on a stock bumper and do not know if it will fit ( looks like it will, but not sure)

This upgrade also made the expected upgrade performance of the Base Classic Auto system and helped to lower the temperature when the vehicle was not moving. It has the same or similar effect as the ProCooler

Now on my 3rd install on a Turbo I plan to install:

1. New Classic Auto Complete system with the front condenser and fan upgrade.
2. Pro Cooler drier

Since this is a 77 turbo, the rear lid copper condenser is not going to cut it so I plan to also install the fender condenser from Nostalgic Air if it fits on the rear stock bumper, if not I will install on the front fender.

Any of these combinations will get you a Cool AC system that will not break the bank and work on areas with 90+ degree weather and traffic.

[aerochip]

If you only drive occasionally, I’d seriously consider a cheap cooler a/c solution and somehow secure it in the back seat. There are a few options, but here is one: https://www.b-kool.net

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by aerochip

If you only drive occasionally, I’d seriously consider a cheap cooler a/c solution and somehow secure it in the back seat. There are a few options, but here is one: https://www.b-kool.net

A swamp cooler? Whole new meaning to swamp azz.
Just what Rawknee needs MORE HUMIDITY!!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

That thing looks kinky, Deez!

[speednme1]

Ha! I think rawknees would completely misuse that cooler

[freesaints]

Yeah, I've got my two small boys sitting back there, not sure what they'd do if that was in between them. Nothing that would make daddy happy, I'm sure.

ivanuf - thanks for that info, very helpful. It seems like simply adding the ProCooler drier made a big difference.