oil that claims 20* drop in temp?

[dsiegel360]

Amsoil oil claims a 20* drop in oil temp over mobil 1 synthetic 15/50.

$11.36/quart.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd50.aspx?zo=1282443

My car is still running too hot. Got 2 fender coolers and don't want to change the stock valance to make room for the large center mount cooler. I got rid of the oil cooler in the engine compartment and replaced it with an additional oil filter setup. I was wondering if anyone has rid themselves of the A/C components in the engine compartment to make room for an oil cooler that receives air from (in my case, a hose to scoop air coming up from under the engine, through the gap where the old oil cooler was, to an enclosed cooler- quarantined from the engine- that vents hot air out the top of the whale tail.)

A/C or new valance?

[lucittm]

This is racing oil. It will make your car faster in the straights and able to brake later in the turns resulting in faster lap times.

It was tested in the Nurumburgring and on the Autobahn.

This oil will keep your rear view mirror clean and cause your headlights to shine brighter.

Tires will last longer and your windshield wipers will never wear out.

blah, blah, blah, blah...

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by dsiegel360

Amsoil oil claims a 20* drop in oil temp over mobil 1 synthetic 15/50.

$11.36/quart.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd50.aspx?zo=1282443

My car is still running too hot. Got 2 fender coolers and don't want to change the stock valance to make room for the large center mount cooler. I got rid of the oil cooler in the engine compartment and replaced it with an additional oil filter setup. I was wondering if anyone has rid themselves of the A/C components in the engine compartment to make room for an oil cooler that receives air from (in my case, a hose to scoop air coming up from under the engine, through the gap where the old oil cooler was, to an enclosed cooler- quarantined from the engine- that vents hot air out the top of the whale tail.)

A/C or new valance?

Running too hot on the track or too hot on the street?

[beepbeep]

I changed from 50-weight oil to 30-weight oil and my temps dropped 15 deg C. Same car, same track, two days in between. Thinner oil will bring down the temps in general.

Unfortunately, I have reground cams (watercooled non-P car) so lifters are noisy on idle w/o thicker oil.

[full quack]

You got rid of your engine mounted oil cooler....pray tell why?? Did it do something to offend you?? All for another filter??There are so many other places that an additional oil filter could be placed. Having that fan forced cooled unit in place seems kinda important to me.
You have replaced it with 2 passive cooled units clear up front that only flow oil when the temp. valve opens...hummm.....and only cool when the car is moving...hummm.
In your engine/car "bio" you state your engine has NASCAR bearings.
Please clue me in on what exactly are NASCAR bearings? Do they only allow you to turn left?
Mark

[sand_man]

Regarding the bearings:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=383178

Originally Posted by full quack

In your engine/car "bio" you state your engine has NASCAR bearings.
Please clue me in on what exactly are NASCAR bearings? Do they only allow you to turn left?
Mark

[DonE]

Originally Posted by full quack

You got rid of your engine mounted oil cooler....pray tell why?? Did it do something to offend you?? All for another filter??There are so many other places that an additional oil filter could be placed. Having that fan forced cooled unit in place seems kinda important to me.
You have replaced it with 2 passive cooled units clear up front that only flow oil when the temp. valve opens...hummm.....and only cool when the car is moving...hummm.
[snip]
Mark

I removed mine for access to pax side cam shaft for cam synch sensor and filter. I think 964 motors replaced the engine oil cooler for a filter. Anyway, I use 2 passive units up front too. One has a simple hi flow 6" elect fan turned on by my ECU when the temp hits 99C. The thermostat in the wheel well does a great job of letting the oil circulate in the engine and warm up too. So well in fact, that I use an engine temp sensor in place of the original engine thermostat to tell the ECU how to add fuel for cold and warm start as well as warm up enrichment. Works well. And yes, most of my cooling comes from moving, but the fan comes on in traffic and it stays around 100C. As far as I can tell, removing the engine oil cooler had no affect on my engine temps, smart ass.

[DDDD]

Ha!

Amsoil is good stuff no doubt but just total BS on all the claims they make. They are maybe marginally superior to something like Mobil 1 but that is only if you believe their claims, know what I mean?

My cousin is all trying to sell me this Amsoil oil because I'll get 20% better fuel mileage and only change my oil every 25,000 miles. Like I believe any of it. I would never run any oil in a 930 for more than 2,500 miles. Oil has marginal effect on fuel mileage.

I am sure it is a great product, I just prefer cheaper and more familiar brands for a 930.

[Miguel Antonett]

Bs!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by dsiegel360

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd50.aspx?zo=1282443

My car is still running too hot. Got 2 fender coolers and don't want to change the stock valance to make room for the large center mount cooler.

I'm assuming you are running both coolers in series. In this case, you will see the first cooler doing most of the cooling and the second performing less than the first because you are reaching the laws of diminishing returns. Also, you are increasing the pressure drop across the cooling system. In other words if each cooler imposes, say a 5 psi drop one cooler, the second cooler imposes an additional 5 psi drop across it as well. So you have a total of 10 psi across the cooling system. The Porsche sump system does not favor too much of a pressure loss (i.e. restrictive) according to Brian Anderson.
If you attach the coolers in parallel, you will effectively have a 2.5 psi pressure drop across the cooling system, assuming the oil coolers are of the same design. Of course oil through each cooler in parallel will be reduced, because the main feed is split across two oil coolers. I think in high speed applications, the parallel system is more effective since their is a lot of oil flowing at high RPM's. Proof of point; stare down any radiator/heat exchanger and you will see the core lines are in parallel not in series. my $0.02

btw, I do not favor using an oil to reduce temperatures on a marginal cooling system. Sounds like a band-aid.

[full quack]

Hey there DonE,
Well better a smart ass than a dumb ass...Now I have learned more stuff!! It's OK to have a little "tongue in check" happening on the forum.
The description of your oil cooler set-up with the fan & temperature sensor & ECU sounds great. The thread starter did not mention the use of any fan or temp. sensor, just 2 front coolers, hence my pondering.
Secondly, I now know about the sbc bearing modification, sounds cool, sounds expensive.
Mark

[dsiegel360]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

I'm assuming you are running both coolers in series. In this case, you will see the first cooler doing most of the cooling and the second performing less than the first because you are reaching the laws of diminishing returns. Also, you are increasing the pressure drop across the cooling system. In other words if each cooler imposes, say a 5 psi drop one cooler, the second cooler imposes an additional 5 psi drop across it as well. So you have a total of 10 psi across the cooling system. The Porsche sump system does not favor too much of a pressure loss (i.e. restrictive) according to Brian Anderson.
If you attach the coolers in parallel, you will effectively have a 2.5 psi pressure drop across the cooling system, assuming the oil coolers are of the same design. Of course oil through each cooler in parallel will be reduced, because the main feed is split across two oil coolers. I think in high speed applications, the parallel system is more effective since their is a lot of oil flowing at high RPM's. Proof of point; stare down any radiator/heat exchanger and you will see the core lines are in parallel not in series. my $0.02

btw, I do not favor using an oil to reduce temperatures on a marginal cooling system. Sounds like a band-aid.

Great suggestion Dave. As to your earlier question, I would like to do lots of track days but feel compelled to wait until I can trust all the components. I've put more money into this car than anticipated (as we all have) and don't want any small problems to become huge problems. I refuse to track it again until the engine temps are way down.

Everyone else, thanks for the input. Other thoughts on cooling the oil?

Doug

[A930Rocket]

I think your going to better off with a front mounted (valance) oil cooler. As you drive you will be pushing air into it. Just make sure it's big enough and you have enough room between the backside of it and the tub to let air get through. Also, make your lines are sized properly. -12 at a minimum and -16 is better. With this you should be able to lose the extra fender mount oil cooler. Your not getting much air to them any way.

As far as trying to duct air from below to a tail mounted cooler, you won't be getting the proper amount of air needed to flow through an oil cooler unless the scoop us big enough and you have enough ductwork. You also might be fighting some aerodynamics on the outside for the air to exit I suspect.

I run a fender mount and front mount combination with a 934 style air dam at the track and see 190-200* temps after a half hour. I'm also making 400 rwhp @ 1 bar for reference.

[rsrmike]

You could install a "sandwich plate" above your oil filter on the engine and run AN lines to a cooler in the engine compartment mounted to the decklid. Although you will preheat the cooling air before it gets to the fan, possibly resulting in higher cyl head temps...

That way you would be cooling the oil as it's being fed to the engine versus trying to take the heat out before it gets to the tank w/ front coolers.

It's a great idea to have the filter on the engine. Many people don't realize the stock 930 oil filter is only filtering the oil on it's way BACK to the tank. Meaning, any contaminants that make their way into the oil tank will quickly find their way into the engine.

Also, the oil coming out of the engine through the scavenge pump is typically full of air, which is what makes the oil line size critical. The "aerated oil" also affects the cooler efficiency.

It's true, you are most likely not getting good airflow to your fender mounted coolers, and will struggle to do so.

When Porsche removed the engine cooler from the C-2, they used a much improved oil cooler design w/ 2 speed fan as well as much improved aerodynamics to the cooler.

The engine mounted oil filter is a great idea, it's too bad you lose the engine cooler though. Having the engine fan force air through the engine cooler helps oil temp, alot.

You could regain some of that w/ a remote oil cooler plumbed into the engine feed side. An electric fan mounted to the cooler would help too.

The only time I removed an engine oil cooler from an old car, I used 2 C-2 oil coolers butted together in series in the nose of a 935 replica. W/ 550hp, the oil stays below 200F all day, but if it were not for the 935 bumper I hate to think how high the oil temp would be.

Too bad you can't fit an oil filter in the feed side and keep your engine mounted cooler, at least the heat from the engine cooler goes out the bottom w/o affecting cooling air to the fan.

Good luck!

[rsrmike]

I just realized you may not have room for a sandwich plate. Is your filter housing the 964 or 993 type. I belive the 964 type has more angle on the filter meaning the filter may not hit the oil feed into the case.

Of course you could also install a remote filter and oil have the sandwich plate mounted to the filter housing.

All of that is starting to get a little crazy

Are you sure you don't want a center mounted oil cooler in the bumper?

[dsiegel360]

Hey gang, sorry for the delay.
Rocket- 200* after 30 minutes is a convincing #. Time will tell whether I'm stubborn enough to concoct an alternative to the simple center mounted cooler solution. Thanks.

Goran- you mentioned 30 weight oil. I read something of late regarding a factory suggestion that our oil have either the #'s 40 or 50. Do you run additional oil coolers? What are your temps? Thanks.

DonE- Did you plumb the oil cooler lines in series? Either way, I might have more questions for you. Thanks.

Werk- Great suggestion. I'd like to understand the specifics of running the lines in parallel. Where should the lines split and return? If I do decide to add the center mounted cooler, should that be run parallel too?

Anyone add an additional oil pump after adding extra coolers?

rs mike- great info. Thanks for offering creativity. I have the 993 filter setup. As to your question...Yes, I'm sure I don't want to change my front valance. But I am more sure on the fact that I don't want my oil running at 230*-285*. I will explore your suggestions prior to the inevitable....mounting a cooler front and center.

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by dsiegel360

Werk- Great suggestion. I'd like to understand the specifics of running the lines in parallel. Where should the lines split and return? If I do decide to add the center mounted cooler, should that be run parallel too?

You attach a Y-type splitter on the feed line in the inner fender feeding the two coolers. Same applies for the return line. I suggest a Y-type because the "T" type are basically two 90 degree bends....undesirable.

[A930Rocket]

Is it only hot at the track? If so, you might be able to adapt some temp duct work in the front of your valance to get air to the coolers. Either under the rubber valance or the driving lights. Others have cut the back of the headlight buckets out to get fresh in there. A fan is really only good for traffic.

[dsiegel360]

Rocket- The car runs hot even while cruising at low rpm on the highway. I purchased a couple of air scoops but only installed one on the driver's side. Supposedly the bumper needs to come off to install the passenger side.

Can you guys see any reason not to install one of these? Dave, is a contraption like this worth the loss in pressure? (compact oil cooler)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-Compact-Engine-Oil-Cooler-911-930-911SC-1973-89_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c39Q3a1Q 7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec 0Q2em14QQhashZitem300263576441QQitemZ300263576441

[dsiegel360]

From the oil tank, does the oil normally go to the engine oil cooler and then the case?