Revalved Bilsteins?

[djdawson2]

I was reading in some suspension thread that for street use, it was worthwhile to install revalved Bilsteins... less compression damping, more rebound.

Can anyone clarify this a bit, and point me to a supplier?

I currently really love the stock handling on my '89. I really don't want it to be any more stiff. I wouldn't mind taking out some of the body roll... so perhaps different swaybars. But I do not want to move to larger torsion bars or stiffer shocks.

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.

Dave

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by djdawson2

I was reading in some suspension thread that for street use, it was worthwhile to install revalved Bilsteins... less compression damping, more rebound.

Can anyone clarify this a bit, and point me to a supplier?

I currently really love the stock handling on my '89. I really don't want it to be any more stiff. I wouldn't mind taking out some of the body roll... so perhaps different swaybars. But I do not want to move to larger torsion bars or stiffer shocks.

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.

Dave

Steve at Rennsport Systems and David at TRE Motorsports are the two people I trust for these kind of intimate set-up questions.

If you are pretty close to loving your set up I would seriously not mess with it, especially revalving shocks. It is the Bilstein Sport shocks which have harsh valving, is that what you run?

You are on a very slippery slope to change a car you love. Shocks have little or nothing to do with body roll IMO.

[djdawson2]

I'm not trying to control body roll with shocks... actually looking to reduce the harshness of initial impact of bumps. When someone mentioned reduced compression damping, this sounded like a good idea.

[pkracer21j]

2nd DDDD, give steve at Rennsport, hes the suspension guru for these things. hes forgotten more about porsche suspensions then most of us will ever know.

[djdawson2]

I did actually call Rennsport... what a great guy. Based on my preferences, he said to either stick with stock and upgrade the swaybars, or go to a matched set of shocks and larger torsion bars... which he indicated would not ruin the ride quality if done properly.

[gumba]

I switched from stock front and h.d. rear bilsteins to Smart Racing F10 front & F10 rear which is a re valving for the street. Initial dampening felt better, not as harsh. I could feel them getting progressively stiffer as the turn got sharper.
Shocks DO effect body roll. They control how fast the body rolls, this would be most noticeable through transitional turns. If your going through a sweeper and the car is in a steady state then the shocks don't do much.
If you want less body roll then I would go with bigger sway bars, and leave the torsion bars the same.
The race shops I deal with in my area seem to go with a mild torsion bar for a good ride (specific to your car), bigger sway bars for the corners, re valved shocks. The last step would be adjustable shocks which tend to get pricey.
I would talk to either of the shops above as well as Smart Racing and have them put a package together for you.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by gumba

I switched from stock front and h.d. rear bilsteins to Smart Racing F10 front & F10 rear which is a re valving for the street. Initial dampening felt better, not as harsh. I could feel them getting progressively stiffer as the turn got sharper.
Shocks DO effect body roll. They control how fast the body rolls, this would be most noticeable through transitional turns. If your going through a sweeper and the car is in a steady state then the shocks don't do much.
If you want less body roll then I would go with bigger sway bars, and leave the torsion bars the same.
The race shops I deal with in my area seem to go with a mild torsion bar for a good ride (specific to your car), bigger sway bars for the corners, re valved shocks. The last step would be adjustable shocks which tend to get pricey.
I would talk to either of the shops above as well as Smart Racing and have them put a package together for you.

Is F10 different than their Fox Shocks? I am not at all familiar with this product.

I want Fox Shocks.

[gumba]

The F10 is their street re-valving formula for Bilsteins. F30 for street track, F40 for track. F=front, R=rear.
Their Fox Shocks is an adjustable height front spindle strut with Fox Shox insert. The shock has a remote cylinder and is nitrogen filled. You change the gross stiffness by the nitrogen pressure, then the fine stiffness with a 6 click knob. I use the lowest nitrogen pressure (120 psi) and the softer setting at the track for our race car.
I prefer the Wevo rear adjustable shock to the Fox shox for simplicity, no remote cannisters to deal with and the adjustment knob is at the bottom of the shock.
I'm seeing more of these setups for street/track cars.

[911st]

sub'd

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by gumba

The F10 is their street re-valving formula for Bilsteins. F30 for street track, F40 for track. F=front, R=rear.
Their Fox Shocks is an adjustable height front spindle strut with Fox Shox insert. The shock has a remote cylinder and is nitrogen filled. You change the gross stiffness by the nitrogen pressure, then the fine stiffness with a 6 click knob. I use the lowest nitrogen pressure (120 psi) and the softer setting at the track for our race car.
I prefer the Wevo rear adjustable shock to the Fox shox for simplicity, no remote cannisters to deal with and the adjustment knob is at the bottom of the shock.
I'm seeing more of these setups for street/track cars.

so what is ideal for the street? Front fox shocks and rear wevo? I hate my bilstein sports, they just bounce on potholes. Or is it just so much more economical to use F10 inserts?

[gumba]

I think the Fox fronts and Wevo rears. In the long run this would be the most versatile and cost effective. They work with either torsion bars or coil overs. You could set the front spindle height based on your current wheel diameter, change it if you go to another diameter. If you decide to change your car set up for the street, street/track or track your not redoing everything. If you swap to coil overs you can change your ride height without affecting shock travel. If you DE the car and drive to the track you could change the shock settings and adjust the sway bars for the track, change it back for the ride home. You could also add helper springs to the rears (retaining the torsion bars) to deal with turbo squat. If you decide to sell the car return it to stock and sell the parts.

If you don't seeing yourself going down that path, then the re-valving would be enough. I wouldn't go anything stiffer than the F10 for the street. I had the F30 in our street/track car and it wasn't much fun on the street. My wife who also races wouldn't ride in the car on the street.

Re-valving is $120 per shock according to the S/R catalog.
The Fox fronts are around $2K. The Wevo rears are around $1150 for the pair. You should confirm the prices with these shops.
If you scroll down to pg. 52 on the S/R catalog you can see a price breakdown. Look at the prices for : re-valving, raising spindles, shorten insert & strut ( to lower the car and keep a fair amount of shock travel using the stock strut), RSR struts. That gets pretty pricey without as much versatility.

[JFairman]

My car had RSR valved Bilstein inserts in the front and Bilstein sports in the rear when I bought it because the previous owner set it up that way for porsche club track events.
The car is quite stiff for city driving but i'm not going to spend the money for softer shocks, I don't mind the harsh ride over bumps in town too much. On the highway the ride feels great.

I have a motorcycle with a single Fox mono shock in the rear. Very nice shock with threaded collars for the spring/ride hieght and jounce or compression adjustment knob on the bottom of the shock and 6 position rebound adjustment on the seperate resorvoir.
The shrader valve used to leak on the reservoir and when all the nitrogen pressure leaked out all rebound damping was gone. When that happend I'd stop by a friends shop and shoot in 300psi of nitrogen and all damping would return to the shock.

[djdawson2]

I called Smart Racing about the F10 and R10 valved Bilsteins. Unfortunately, a lady answered the phone who insisted that she could tell me everything about the product. She essentially told me nothing of value... vagaries about changes to damping and that it was a "sporty street" setup.

After 10 minutes of conversation that neither had value, nor lead to her offering to allow me to speak with someone more knowledgeable, I threw in the towel.

It does sound like something I'd be interested in learning more about, however.

[Garrison]

I am currently saving up $$$ to get Fox Shocks as well. From what I have read and heard on this board they are worth the money.

I have not heard about the Wevo's for the rear? Are these the Ohlins that I have heard of?

I was thinking of going Fox Shocks at all 4 corners, and this might be an option for you Dave.

[gumba]

Yes, these are the Wevo/Ohlins. The are valved to Wevo's specs. You would need to contact Wevo about the shocks because they are not on their site. I prefer the Wevo's because they don't use a remote cannister and ease of adjustment, but that's just my preference. Either one would be fine. Here is a shot of the Wevo's. The adjustment is made by turning the black knob at the bottom of the shock, above the mount bolt.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by Garrison

I am currently saving up $$$ to get Fox Shocks as well. From what I have read and heard on this board they are worth the money.

I have not heard about the Wevo's for the rear? Are these the Ohlins that I have heard of?

I was thinking of going Fox Shocks at all 4 corners, and this might be an option for you Dave.

Tell me about it, lol.... I dream of Fox shocks every time I hit a bump.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by djdawson2

I called Smart Racing about the F10 and R10 valved Bilsteins. Unfortunately, a lady answered the phone who insisted that she could tell me everything about the product. She essentially told me nothing of value... vagaries about changes to damping and that it was a "sporty street" setup.

After 10 minutes of conversation that neither had value, nor lead to her offering to allow me to speak with someone more knowledgeable, I threw in the towel.

It does sound like something I'd be interested in learning more about, however.

That lady annoys me too. You want to specifically ask for Rich. Hopefully he still works for them with this downturn. I think the lady is the wife of the owner.

If not Rich than the other guy I think is Greg or Gary or something that maybe owns the place.

That is one screwed aspect of Smart Racing, that they have unknowledgable women providing customer support.

Try David at TRE Motorsports as your next fellow.

[Garrison]

Tell me about it, lol.... I dream of Fox shocks every time I hit a bump.

Yep, slowly but surely I am getting some $$$ put away for these.