Market Value

[Cowtown10]

Looking for any help in market value for my car. What's a reasonable asking price based on market conditions, economy etc etc. I havent been following the market lately and would appreciate some input if anyone has.
The engine was rebuilt completely over the winter, see attached thread for the details.
Body and interior are in good shape, especially for a 25yr+ old car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=453862

Thanks in advance

[hoyabear]

Man, why would you want to sell that now that it is so nicely sorted?! First off, I think you'd be best served by separating the wheels from the car prior to sale. Secondly, I'd say that we would need to know mileage, history, etc, and have more detailed pics to make a decent estimation.

That being said, if the car is lower mileage (~under 75K) and has a really clean/orig interior and the paint looks as good up close as it does in the couple of pics you have there, I'd say you could expect low 30's in this market.

[DDDD]

May I ask why you are selling out of curiosity? Just trying to keep yourself off the constant slippery slope?

[benzyne]

People in Canada will pay more. Factor in duty, PST and GST on top of US exchange to price accordingly for local folk. My excellent deal on a C2 Turbo last year cost me $6k in taxes to bring across the border.

[Cowtown10]

ITs not a forced sell...might have other opportunities coming.
The interior is in great shape, A new upper dash would be in order as it has a wave in it by the passenger vent. But the rest is tip top (for a 25yr old)
The wheels are included as I sold off the Fuchs, didnt see the reason with 400hp why anyone would want those 225s on it.

Looks like if (when) it goes for sale someone will get a heck of a deal...
If anyone wants more pics let me know

Q

[911st]

$30-35K.

There was a very nice heavely modified 930 with low milage and EFI that they were trying to get in the mid to high $30's of late. It seemed to take a long time to move it.

Thinking of that I am thinking in the $30-35k range if you find the right buyer. Plus, we are going into the winter and things go soft for cars like this.

Not an expert, JMO.

[JFairman]

I would hang on to it if you can. You will be glad you did in the future.

The economy and the resale value of these cars will improve in the next few years. We all have to have a positive attitude about that or it may not happen.

You fixed it all up now you deserve to enjoy it.

I would think you should get high 30's or maybe more in a few years or so if you want to sell it then.

[DDDD]

The only chance you will get in the next few years to sell is now, so your timing is fine if you really want to sell right away.

The green shoot/quick recovery stuff is a media myth. If we have free healthcare (paid for by taxing the middle class and business) and Cap and Tax on energy, there is no recovery for the middle class. No amount of positive attitude will pay for those bills.

[hoyabear]

I'd respectfully disagree. I work in M&A at an investment bank, and across all of the sectors that we have ongoing projects, our clients are anticipating a recovery (and putting thier money where their mouths are).

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by hoyabear

I'd respectfully disagree. I work in M&A at an investment bank, and across all of the sectors that we have ongoing projects, our clients are anticipating a recovery (and putting thier money where their mouths are).

I invest for a living. When your clients have all bought into this record all-time historically overpriced market (S+P price to earnings of 145 to 1 OUCH!!) and there is nobody left to buy, then Goldman Sachs and JPM will turn their HFT supercomputers into sell mode and down we go again. Might take a while, the market always remains irrational longer than an individual can remain solvent. That is after all how the big investment banks eat everybody's lunch. Unemployment has not slowed down in the least. The 9.4% number is based on people no longer being eligible to collect benefits, not job growth. Anyway I am not going to get into this because I watch clients (know as dumb money) get wiped out everyday. It is what I do for a living. I was the crazy guy telling everybody this same stuff back in 2007 and people don't want to know the truth which is why they always lose. I told people Porsche would go bankrupt two years ago when I caught wind of them trying to buy VW. I argued at this website with people for over a year about why GM would go bankrupt. All of this stuff is so amazingly obvious if you look at the facts and not hype and hope. Question: Did your company take TARP money? Are you getting those secret no interest loans from the FED to survive? Are you living off the discount window like all the investment banks I am aware of? Heck, what company do you work for and I will probably be able to tell you in extreme detail what your books actually say. Please don't say Merrill or Barclay or COF.... You may want to know the actual facts versus a non-mark to market fantasy job that has patched up bank statements but not bank health. Do you hold CDOs/derivatives? Are you investing in Commercial Real Estate (the next shoe to drop)? Investment Banks were a huge part of what caused this crisis, and all the ones I am aware of are functionally insolvent but for the graces of MTM accounting changes. Anyway I also respectfully agree to disagree so that's cool.



Cowtown, this is a good time as any to sell (relatively speaking) if that is what you really want. If you do hold, than just expect to wait a few years.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by benzyne

People in Canada will pay more. Factor in duty, PST and GST on top of US exchange to price accordingly for local folk. My excellent deal on a C2 Turbo last year cost me $6k in taxes to bring across the border.

Canada is actually in pretty good shape right now. The question is what happens with energy and natural resource prices going forward because that is a big part of the economy. Better pray for no Cap and Tax.

So yeah, the Canadian situation is actually much different and maybe the whole Porsche market is better up there as well.

Canada is going to be a good and safe place to be in the next few years. I love Canada. I told everybody here to invest in Canadian oil trusts three years ago.

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by DDDD

I invest for a living. When your clients have all bought into this record all-time historically overpriced market (S+P price to earnings of 145 to 1 OUCH!!) and there is nobody left to buy, then Goldman Sachs and JPM will turn their HFT supercomputers into sell mode and down we go again. Might take a while, the market always remains irrational longer than an individual can remain solvent. That is after all how the big investment banks eat everybody's lunch. Unemployment has not slowed down in the least. The 9.4% number is based on people no longer being eligible to collect benefits, not job growth. Anyway I am not going to get into this because I watch clients (know as dumb money) get wiped out everyday. It is what I do for a living. I was the crazy guy telling everybody this same stuff back in 2007 and people don't want to know the truth which is why they always lose. I told people Porsche would go bankrupt two years ago when I caught wind of them trying to buy VW. I argued at this website with people for over a year about why GM would go bankrupt. All of this stuff is so amazingly obvious if you look at the facts and not hype and hope. Question: Did your company take TARP money? Are you getting those secret no interest loans from the FED to survive? Are you living off the discount window like all the investment banks I am aware of? Heck, what company do you work for and I will probably be able to tell you in extreme detail what your books actually say. Please don't say Merrill or Barclay or COF.... You may want to know the actual facts versus a non-mark to market fantasy job that has patched up bank statements but not bank health. Do you hold CDOs/derivatives? Are you investing in Commercial Real Estate (the next shoe to drop)? Investment Banks were a huge part of what caused this crisis, and all the ones I am aware of are functionally insolvent but for the graces of MTM accounting changes. Anyway I also respectfully agree to disagree so that's cool.



Cowtown, this is a good time as any to sell (relatively speaking) if that is what you really want. If you do hold, than just expect to wait a few years.

Jeez....doom and gloom! Or maybe a shot of reality. Retirement for me is probably 2 or 3 years away (my investments are locked into about the lowest risk portfolios I can stand, my interests primarily on protecting the principle). Too old for big risks in this f_ _ _ up market. My 930 will be with me well into retirement years, until such time that (if) the market turns around and our cars become worth what they're worth for a change.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by mark houghton

Jeez....doom and gloom! Or maybe a shot of reality. Retirement for me is probably 2 or 3 years away (my investments are locked into about the lowest risk portfolios I can stand, my interests primarily on protecting the principle). Too old for big risks in this f_ _ _ up market. My 930 will be with me well into retirement years, until such time that (if) the market turns around and our cars become worth what they're worth for a change.

I want people to be smart and protect their assets. Seriously. The facts are not of my creation. I get so much crap from every direction for telling people the truth, it never ends. I wish somebody else would tell the truth so I would not have to be Mr. doom and gloom. I have people who are angry at me simply because I tried to warn them and I was right and they were wrong. Why is it always like that?

As soon as I open my mouth about this stuff, I know I am going to get ripped from all directions because people seriously don't want to know.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread.

[Cowtown10]

Originally Posted by DDDD

Canada is actually in pretty good shape right now. The question is what happens with energy and natural resource prices going forward because that is a big part of the economy. Better pray for no Cap and Tax.

So yeah, the Canadian situation is actually much different and maybe the whole Porsche market is better up there as well.

Canada is going to be a good and safe place to be in the next few years. I love Canada. I told everybody here to invest in Canadian oil trusts three years ago.

As I am in the Energy Sector in Canada, things aren't great with $2.60 gas and $69 oil, coupled with a strong CDN dollar, Provincial royalty increases and gas storage levels we are actually in a very big downturn...the number of active rigs operating is <20%.
Energy Trust will be significantly changing soon as the CDN Govt has changed the taxation rules by 2011. All existing trusts will pay taxes at the same rate as regular corporations. The tax changes could hurt many trusts well before 2011. Every drop of oil or natural gas pumped out of the ground reduces a trust's reserves by that amount. Historically, the trusts compensated by adding to reserves via acquisitions, using their shares as currency. Now, given their uncertain outlook, it will be harder to make new acquisitions. Trusts without sufficient reserves in the ground may be unable to maintain their current distribution levels.

Back to cars! Law of supply and demand, there just isnt as many cars to choose from up here but on the other side of the equation there arent as many buyers especially for such specific cars like ours. So the trick is finding a guy who appreciates these cars (930's) and is will to pay what your asking...not like a 996 or 997 that has all the creature comforts etc which appeal to a broader market. Over the last 3 years there have been a ton of cars being imported in to Canada due to our strong dollar compared to the US,( i bought this car when the CDN dollar was 5% stronger than the US). Even with all the costs of importing a car to Canada, taxes, shipping, duty, inspection, etc etc. with a little due diligence you can still come out way ahead of buying a car locally.

As I mentioned its not a forced sale so I can price it in the mid 40s cdn and wait till my buyer comes along...perpetual sale...in the mean time I can enjoy the 400hp kick in the ass!!!
Thanks for the input

[DDDD]

That is why I sold all my candian energy trusts when oil was $147...they are going to be demolished by the gov't as you mentioned. Made more money that any other investment in my lifetime. I absolutely love Canada. Seriously thinking about moving there when the poop really starts to fly these next two years.

Yes, I would go with the perpetual sale option and drive the car rather than let it sit. It is an awesome car and the pictures you took on a few threads with the mountains in the background are enough to sell it on emotional appeal. Or start your own calendar for Porsche enthusiasts!

[willtel]

Completely unrelated world economy talk aside here is my suggestion.

I'll give you $6000 and we can swap motors then when that is done you can offer your car for a quick sale at ~$25k. Everyone wins and I get a fresh engine!

[hoyabear]

Originally Posted by DDDD

I invest for a living. When your clients have all bought into this record all-time historically overpriced market (S+P price to earnings of 145 to 1 OUCH!!) and there is nobody left to buy, then Goldman Sachs and JPM will turn their HFT supercomputers into sell mode and down we go again. Might take a while, the market always remains irrational longer than an individual can remain solvent. That is after all how the big investment banks eat everybody's lunch. Unemployment has not slowed down in the least. The 9.4% number is based on people no longer being eligible to collect benefits, not job growth. Anyway I am not going to get into this because I watch clients (know as dumb money) get wiped out everyday. It is what I do for a living. I was the crazy guy telling everybody this same stuff back in 2007 and people don't want to know the truth which is why they always lose. I told people Porsche would go bankrupt two years ago when I caught wind of them trying to buy VW. I argued at this website with people for over a year about why GM would go bankrupt. All of this stuff is so amazingly obvious if you look at the facts and not hype and hope. Question: Did your company take TARP money? Are you getting those secret no interest loans from the FED to survive? Are you living off the discount window like all the investment banks I am aware of? Heck, what company do you work for and I will probably be able to tell you in extreme detail what your books actually say. Please don't say Merrill or Barclay or COF.... You may want to know the actual facts versus a non-mark to market fantasy job that has patched up bank statements but not bank health. Do you hold CDOs/derivatives? Are you investing in Commercial Real Estate (the next shoe to drop)? Investment Banks were a huge part of what caused this crisis, and all the ones I am aware of are functionally insolvent but for the graces of MTM accounting changes. Anyway I also respectfully agree to disagree so that's cool.



Cowtown, this is a good time as any to sell (relatively speaking) if that is what you really want. If you do hold, than just expect to wait a few years.

DDDD,

I work at a boutique that specializes in Divestitures, M&A and debt/equity raises. While the stock market is likely overpriced and shennanigans continue, what I was referring to is that strong companies do exist today, and they are out there right now trying to position themselves for the turnaround.

They are trying to snap up companies (and BUs) who have faired more poorly in recent times at a bargain price. Companies are making big moves believing that there will be demand to make them worthwhile. Consumer confidence is up, housing starts are up. There are a lot of positive indicators. I agree that the market is what it is, but there is more to the economy (and what that means in terms of standard of living) than what you find in the indexes.

With reference to Cowtown's decision to sell, I think that he would probably get the best price for his car if he waited a couple of years, but depending on the opportunity cost, it might be best for him to take a loss (an assumption looking at the mods he's done + est purchase price, and what he can expect to get in this market) and sell the car now.

[hoyabear]

Just read Cowtown's reply: "price it in the mid 40s cdn and wait till my buyer comes along"

I agree that this is the best strategy by far. If you don't need quick cash, enjoy it and try to get your money back (maybe plus a small premium).

[964 T #304]

Just for a comparison there is a 91 turbo on Rennlist with a nicely sorted "Turbo Kraft" efi system with all of the records and pics. of the work done with speedlines and low milage for the mid 30's. The cars is not perfect, but seller acknowledges that, and price reflects that.

[wurls]

Quentin,

That is one sick car! Probably as close to a dream car for me as I can get!
If you're looking for a possible trade (from a fellow Canuck), and ex Cow Town resident, hit be back a PM. I have a 1988 RoW Carrera Coupe silver, with 56,000 miles that I'd trade for a nice turbo like that.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Cowtown10

Looking for any help in market value for my car. What's a reasonable asking price based on market conditions, economy etc etc. I havent been following the market lately and would appreciate some input if anyone has.
The engine was rebuilt completely over the winter, see attached thread for the details.
Body and interior are in good shape, especially for a 25yr+ old car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=453862

Thanks in advance