Collectors and newbies will typically look for stock cars, so you are narrowing the market for your car when you modify. EFI, turbo, wheels, intercooler, doesn't really matter if it's a modification from stock. I'd agree that an educated consumer may seek out a well modded example, but IMO the only way to become educated is to own one, so we're not talking about first time p car buyers.

Speaking from my own experience, when I was looking for my 930 I wanted a stock USA model. In retrospect, I'd be cubic dollars ahead today if had bought a modded car off of a Pelican. We all know you don't get paid for the mods at resale. No regrets here though. Even if a hot rod is your end goal, starting with a stock example has some compelling advantages (cost not being one): with a stock car you have a known quantity...no surprises, things "agree" with the workshop manual. You also get to build it exactly to your specs.

In my mind an umolested car is just that un-molested. You could not really enjoy an original car. You would not want to drive it too much (mileage) or modify anything (original patina). You would ocassionaly drive it at some historic race. That's great, But I have a need for SPEED !

I would much rather build a car to my specifications. You can then fully enjoy it. Hmmm maybe keep a stock engine on the shelf, if you want to part with it in the future.

As always, there is no single thing that does good in every aspect and that includes cars also. I'm not talking about some family hauler vs sports car, I'm talking about classic sportcar to just own vs classic sports car to drive like you want it to.

I totally understand the reasoning behind wanting to have a totally original low mileage car but I personally couldn't enjoy it fully. Therefore -> have to have a car that you could use on the track without regrets.
I wouldn't have a heart at trashing a perfectly stock and restored long-hood on the track, and that's why I am not looking to buy one. I bought however a heavily modified '67 for that.
I drove '72 911T that had gone through full resto on the track as part of the 911 range test drive and it was fun but I couldn't do that on regular basis and what's the point in having a thing that you cannot use?

But I have read here in Pelican a saying about not using your car: "Not using your car and keeping it good for potential buyer is like not f*****g your girlfriend so that her new boyfriend will find her more attractive" :D

So to each their own.

+ 3 on megasquirt. it is capable of things others at 10x the money simply cannot do AND even if they are capable will require a specialist and a shop able to perform such mods. if they had only named it something else it wouldnt sound so sh***y :)

I think more like this guy. I'm not building or modifying the car for anybody but me. Life is short.
Urban Outlaw | Reelhouse

Mods ruin the value of your car and destroys money, I like that!

The fella I got my car from bought it in 1981. 1987 he converted it to a flatnose, that cost him £10k. Last year I bought it off him, that cost him another 10-15k as that's approx what I paid under market value for a standard car.

This is great as it saves me cash, and also I don't have to think twice about modding it further (and destroy more money...)

:)

That guy just sold a hot rod '72 911T done as a personalized ST replica for $275K. Who says mods don't ad value? Or is that provenance? :D

I'm also with Matt & Chris - in the middle of my EFI conversion having bought a very nice, clean 965 a couple of years ago.

I get the impression (although in no way am I a market expert!) that the UK market is more precious about stock than the US - which is why I enjoy hanging around on Pelican - more folk willing to give it a go and not be too sacred about it.

I've boxed every single part that has come off the CIS engine and it'll be stored in the loft when everything's complete; keeps my options open a little (the only exception being the rear tinware above the turbo that was rotten. New one is heavily modified for the new turbo's plumbing, but hey, its a couple of hundred $$'s to buy a genuine new one, if/when the time comes.)

In reality, though, I'm considering this a keeper despite seeing the 930 and 3.6 964T prices shoot up. 3.3 prices *may* follow, who-know, but I want to enjoy this car as a series of projects. I had a 996 GT3 mk2 previously, absolutely mint condition as a regularly used car (ie it wasn't a delivery miles concours garage queen), but to me it was something I daren't use too often, or modify, for fear of devaluing it come resale time....so, off it went, to be replaced with the 964T.

Enjoy the car - life's too short. ;)

I was talking about cars, that are (or will be) part of automotive history.
like a 934 - would anyone here modify that to a TT? Or add a megasquirt (really a dumb ass name) to a 2.8 rsr?

I guess not. In some years 930's (the early ones already) will be very sought after.. In original condition.

The question to be answered in this thread is will it diminish in value over mods? The simple answer is: yes.

Any buyer, professional or newbie, will check the car for originality. In Germany you cant even insure it for rebuy value, unless you have a classic data certificate, which states originality or retauration to factory standard on a scale from 1 to 5.

Oh and performance wise: Unless you can drift your 930 through the Dunlop-Kehre at the Ring with your heel providing Zwischengas while breaking with your toes like Walther Röhrl, do you really need more performance? Or is this just to outrun Boxsters on the strip going straight (though thats a lot of fun)?

I personally cant drive like Walther, so I dont need more power in that car, and hope to preserve it well, for the future when all we do is swap batteries to fill our retro design e-car with new juice. And buy 102 octane fuel on ebay.

@spenny_b: scared? What of? Definitely not losing value, I personally dont really care, no intention to sell..

@raceboy: whats hurting a car when tracking it, other than parts you can exchange? Original doesnt mean trailor queen, I drive my car almost every day (not nearly enough on a track)

Everbody should do with their own cars whatever they want, but having one that is all stock for the sake of originality is not the same as it being a trailer queen or a slouch, these stereo types are just plain annoying.

Little bit of an overly simplistic statement IMO...no, of course we can't drive like Walter (otherwise we'd be doing it), but that doesn't make these projects irrelevant as you're suggesting....there's many factors to consider; drivability, reliability, efficiency, and the good old argument of just having a project to do and "because I can".

Well, I didn't use the word scared (;) ) but I was cautious to not pile too many miles on it, with miles comes the tired old "sucking in through teeth" of a dealer/future owner, as well as wear and tear (inevitable), not just to consumables but also to things like interior and the non-consumable items - stuff wears out, period....you then get paranoid about where you park it....certainly not on the side of the road, definitely at the far corner of a car park, and even then, some prat successfully boils your piss when you come back to the car with a dent from them carelessly opening their door and not leaving details....you get my drift. It became something I spent more time worrying about than enjoying. I never 100% gelled with the car, never quite fell in love with it, so it always was at the back of my mind to sell it, where you're then going to take a reaming on all of the above issues, if they happen to your car. The 964T, on the other hand, cost me a lot less, has got under my skin, is staying-put in my garage, therefore I'm happy to tinker with it and get it how I want.

I hear what you're saying about originality not equalling garage queen, but it is the case that when these models do become very sought after, things like mileage (must be super low) and condition (must be superb) matter a lot....ok, you may have an original but well used example, but that doesn't mean it's going to be worth top $ money, as the job for a future owner of getting it back to perfect is either cost prohibitive, or simply extremely difficult with NLA items. My car with 84k miles on it, even if it was in mint condition (it was extremely good but not mint) simply has too many miles (by about 83,500) for ANY collector to be interested in it. It irritates me too, but that's life.

True, you used sacred, my bad. And I get what you say about being scared where to park it.

BUT - you are wrong about that last one. True with Ferrari's, Lambos (all mostly pre 70ies) but not true for Porsche cars. A 77 3.0 with 50k miles just changed hands for well into 6 figures. We'll see that a lot soon, in like 10 - 20 years time with 3.3's too, I assume.

And in regards to wear, you can keep a car almost perfect looking, if you take good care of it! Especially with the interior. The paint will be irreparable after some time, but that really is something fixed on any collectors car after some time...

So yes, do what you want, but a super well maintained driver can be a collectible!

You mean like was done in 1976 in IMSA to convert them to 934.5s? Yep, a totally insane idea with a factory racecar. :rolleyes:

PS - I am by no means suggesting projects are irrelevant!
Read my earlier post, much respect to those that go all the way and like some actually make it increase value!

But thats clearly the exception, not the rule..

PPS: Check these guys for high milage collectibles AUTO SALON SINGEN: Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Mercedes-Benz, Oldtimer, Aston-Martin, Bentley, Jaguar, McLaren, Maybach, Bugatti, Luxus Cars, Autos, Vintage

:)

Did I read race car between the lines? Period correct modifications even?

I just answered the question you asked. :D

This is true of course, but mostly because "a rising tide lifts all boats"

If 930s become the next collector porsche, we all know it will be the 100% original low mile examples that fetch the highest prices. But the modded ones, and the original hi-milers with good histories will also enjoy a market uplift.

If you are someone who thinks resale value is of highest concern, best not to modify, and really best not to drive it much either because either of the two (miles or mods) will diminish the future value.

Meanwhile, if you do wish to drive and enjoy your "collectible" Porsche 930, there is at least one modification that I personally consider mandatory: Oil cooler upgrade. A front mount oil cooler is required to keep oil temps acceptable. It isn't any fun to drive the car when you're watching the oil temp gauge all the time. This is especially true if you wish to drive the car in its natural habitat: the track
http://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/My...4120020-XL.jpg

How about modifications are done simply because it is fun to do so? I would imagine that is why most people like to increase their vehicle's performance - for fun, as opposed to an effort to outrun anything . . .

I agree on having to mind value prior to restoration, you would have to drive it as little as possible, for the ultimate collector resell vaue. Cant do that.

And I cant agree on the natural habitat. Porsche's promise when selling a 930 was you can drive it every day (in mine even dictate your secretary a tape, on the way to the jet I assume : ), and occasionally take it to the track.

For a track car, the other natural habitat you mentioned, there was and hopefully always will be Weissach with products for the more wealthy / more serious.

I am just a fan of the intended engineering (and intended purpose), and everyone can do with their cars what ever they want of course. Some truely rare cars might get lost, if we modify them too much though. All I am saying.

Awesome reason, all for it, Just expect to loose $, if you dont go all the way like others here do so well. Not everyone can do that.

Yo Tilikum Turbo, not trying to hijack your thread, I'll shut up now :)

According to the history I have read, the original force behind developing the 930 was for homologation purposes...for racing.