What type of CYLINDER HEADS are these? Can I use them?
 

I picked up some interesting items a few years back from a fellow who tracked 934/5 racecars in vintage racing. One of the items was a set of heads.
I have the bug (badly) to modify the gray ghost and would like to use these heads if possible.

What do I have here?
The intake and exhausts ports are hogged out to 42mm, twin plug, and flame ringed. Can these be used on a "normal" 930 engine?
What do the numbers stamped on the castings tell you of the origin? I assume they are normal 930 heads that have been modified.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!


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I can't tell you the origin, but it is interesting that the exhaust valve guides are huge and ribbed at the top for cooling, and have the oiling modification done to them.

I wondered about that, these heads are curious to me as I am used to dealing with stock.
The thought was to port my existing heads and then I remembered having these hidden away. If I can use them that would be great!
What do you think the huge ports and valves will do to the engine characteristics? We've ported the exhaust side before for a nice bump but not the intake side.
Next question; if I can use these heads where is the best place to purchase the correct valves?

They are 935 style exhaust guides. For a street car I would use standard guides so that seals can be used and do not drill the guide for extra oil. Do they have 12mm or 14mm spark plug threads? Most factory race heads had 12mm. are there any numbers stamped by the intake port flanges?

Brian, contact Xtreme Cylinder Heads in FL for the valves.

My heads are ported there and he also made room for bigger valves. Great work and service.

My thoughts were to send my existing heads to Xtreme, and then I remembered having these.

What is the disadvantage or issue with the 935 guides and oil mod for the street?
Spark plug holes take standard 930 plugs.

Good info, thank you all.

Course if you do that you'll need to fab up some 1 3/4 headers.

Not with this build Ken. Yours is EFI big-dog, mine stays CIS. Primary size for my purposes needs to stay the same size as the exhaust ports, which is 1 5/8" in this case. Going bigger will give up velocity for me but could choke HP for you.

Those look identical and have the same number (minus K vs X) that I can see as my Carrera 3.2 heads.

My car is an 87 but 86 is on the head. I bet those are 87 or 88 Carreras.

same numbers...
 

as my Carrera heads also. I have some 42mm cis injector blocks if needed. Philip

Looks like you'll have to send cylinders with those heads to have the flame ring groove properly cut into the cylinders so they match up and work right with those heads without leaking.
The hemi combustion chamber may be set up for 95mm bore cylinders and if it is you have to have a 1mm bevel cut all the way around the edge to use them on 97mm cylinders on your 3.3

Xtreme cylinder heads down here in S. Florida is the best place to have all the head work done.

42mm intake ports is pretty big for a CIS street car I think but I don't know.
You might be better off selling those heads and having your origonal heads redone by Xtreme. Bill is a great guy.
Xtreme Cylinder Heads And Castings

"What do you think the huge ports and valves will do to the engine characteristics?"

I am no expert Brian, but I would have thought the big ports won't help your pre boost air speed. Another way of saying more lag than what you would have on a stock head.
Given that the big heads will be on a mild(not race car) CIS set up and relatively small turbo, you may well be better off with small mods to your stock heads.
Then again , they may be fine.
Hope someone that knows more than I can help. :)

Those are my thoughts as well. Slapping a set of big heads on my engine might do more harm than good. What I was thinking before digging these out was to enlarge and smooth my existing exhaust ports in a similar manner as what Jim did. Cut away all the extra material and smooth it all out to a 42mm opening. Header primaries would match that bore. The idea is quick boost and a big torque curve while keeping stock redline. I'm entertaining twin turbos as I really want to do a CIS twin turbo build just to compare with exisiting single turbo data.

These gutted heads also came with ITB's and high hats for connecting to twin turbo intercoolers. The ITB's are CIS. No idea what the engine this stuff went on was putting out but it sure looks to have potential!

Using 935 guides can lead to higher oil consumption and smoke on startup.

That is not too surprizing as I look at how this oil spigot is machined into the head.
Doesn't look like these are a good idea for my purpose.
Thank you all for the information, it is very appreciated!
I've been asked to post pictures of the CIS ITB's. They are burried in my pile 'o crap as well and I'll have to dig them out but will do that. They are interesting looking.

Instead of obsessing over how to put lipstick on a pig just give up swallow hard and swap it to EFI while you have it apart. I had everything tuned correctly perfect AFR's and still broke all the rings with CIS/POS.

I've seen way too many EFI nightmares to even consider it. If I did the only way would be DIY and I have no time for that. 400-450 ft/lb of torque is quite enough for me anyway so all is good. No reason the rings should be damaged unless something was off.

Yeah i guess i am just so done with EFI and there are plenty of people here in south florida that have made MS-2 and 3 work.

Brian, as I was reading this, I was thinking as Ken posted above. You have good heads, capitalize on them. :)

I'll be the 1st to give you my tune for MegaSquirt that would have you running in minutes as others here would too I bet.

Don't listen to what others have said about MegaSquirt of the past, they've come along ways. With SMT components, they are solid.

The nightmares I believe have disappeared from the first gen days.

I believe nightmares is a harsh word, rather learning curves..... :)

Or try AEM and use Chris' work of art harness which I believe is plug and play for your car. There's a plethora of EMS's out there.

Plus, it's a lot of fun doing the conversion.......

At least I think so.

Rarlyl8, you could probably have the heads flow benched and use the flow data to have a custom set of cams ground to maximize those big valves and ports.

Just curious. What is the diameter of those cylinder heads?

One thing that some of you guys are forgetting, is that like Cole, Brian likes to do it "old school". :D

I'm in no way opposed to EFI from an engineering standpoint, and am rather fond of Haltech's simplicity. EFI is vastly superior to mechanical fuel injection. What I am opposed to is flaky software and tuners who charge stupid money and hold the owner's car hostage for years. I see this @#$%^ all the time. The last fellow I worked with needed a full modified Euro CIS setup after spending 30 grand on empty promises from a very well know tuner (who never visits our forum).
So no I won't be going EFI unless I do it myself.

The cylinders, I was told, are 3.3L but I have not measured them. I'm not going to use these heads on my street engine and I'm not a race guy so they'll go back on the shelf. I may however used the ITB's, if for no other reason than they really look cool.

I dug out the other stuff that came with the heads, ITB's and aluminum hats that attach to twin intercoolers. Would love to have seen what this engine looked like all dressed up.


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Nothing wrong with old school!

Wow! That is one sweet looking setup!

Brian,
I would think the engine would be an absolute dog up to 3500RPM with those heads. I would suggest bumping your compression to 8.0:1 to get back some driveability.
Regarding applying vintage racing parts to today's vintage engines........you can do better. If you compare the 3.2l heads to the 934/935 era heads, you'll find some distinct similarities. Larger exhaust ports, larger intake ports, both breathing much better than the early 930 heads. With lower compression for turbocharging, something had to done to get port velocity up with the lower compression. Hence, the small port 930 heads. Remember, VE goes up with an increase of compression ratio.......to a point.
IMHO, get some 3.2 heads for the grey ghost or better yet, port your 930 heads to 3.2 specs, twin-plug, bump your compression to 7.5/8.0, put some wilder cams in, tweak/monitor AFR's and enjoy the show. :D

Yes that pretty much is the plan. I'll likely message the stock 930 heads and call it a day. I have the cams which may go in next week while the tranny is out for ( another) clutch change ( lesson learned on big clutch packages).
I have specific goals for this engine and it looks like these heads are not a good fit with the package needed. I've been tossing around the idea of building a custom intake, maybe take another look at that.

Alright Brian, I'll install MegaSquirt 3 into your car and tune it the best I can for a set of divided equal length 1 3/4" headers with twin WG pipes. :) ;)

Yep there to go another set of 1 3/4 twin scroll headers.

I've never seen individual throttle body injection stack for CIS before. It looks well made and appears to have been installed on a motor in the past with some welding repair on the middle stack mounting flange, what is the history of it? It looks like casting is there for a second set of injectors.

With the growing EFI options available these days and the throttle response you get with no slow reacting restrictive air flow meter in the way it doesn't make much sense to mess with it but you already have it and it would be cool to install it and make it work.
Where would you put the airflow meter and fuel head though.... and I doubt there would be room for an AC compressor (if thats important) with it.
If it has racing history it is probably worth some money now.

Yes Ken there have been several requests lately for giant tube headers, I got a call just last night for a set. I'll have to re-visit the costs.

This ITB setup has been on an engine as a couple of the flanges are cracked. It's too clean to have spent much time though. The injectors are -009 Euro and appear brand new which is a plus. I have zero knowledge of what this setup is worth as I did not plan to sell it. Now I have a couple folks inquiring.
Any vintage racer guys out there have an idea on a fair price?
Thank you all again for your help with this. The decision is clear to me now that these heads won't work with my build.

Is there a large vacuum hose connection below one of the throttle butterflys for the power brake vacuum booster on the other set of injection stacks? Without that you won't be able to use the stock 930 master cylinder the way it's designed.
I've had sidedraft Solex and Weber carbs on BMW 2002's and the origonal power brake booster and master cylinder worked fine off the short intake manifold runner from just one cylinder.

Those are some pretty bits, hope you find the right project for them someday.

This is super cool Brian.

Good luck, and please keep posting.

If I get some time this weekend I will install the setup on my Evil Engine (you old timers remember that one?). I am curious now as to what the setup looks like assembled.

Jim yes there are bosses on both banks to run vacuum operated devices. It looks to me like they plumb together possibly to balance them out. I do plan to have one of our master welders repair the cracked flanges as apparently someone installed them with gorilla arms.
Good point about the A/C, I went to great lengths to be sure my "new" car had A/C and I'm not giving it up!
The Air meter assembly is moved like Cole did. My plan was a bit different as I wanted twin turbo symmetry.