32 LBs of Boost?

[DohertyCM]

I watched the Eddie Bello video on YOUTUBE and the guy shooting the video was asking him questions...such as why did you bring your car to the dyno today?

His answer was..."well I had made changes to the car and ran it in texas, and I didn't get a chance to tune it...

What changes?

Well I am running 32 pounds of boost with the new turbos." (which is 2.2B BAR)


HOLD ON .... I have seen discussions on here that have said that 1.5 bar of boost would blow your engine.. How do you get that much pressure to work on a car with out blowing it up...and the dyno said he was making 1229 HP.

I wish he would sit down and talk about the mods he has done to his car... I am really curious.

[voitureltd]

Of course 1.5 bar would cause serious damage to a relatively pedestrian 930 motor. Bare in mind that over 30 years ago with the technology available back then the 935s were using 1.5 bar in the safe zone in 12 to 24 hour races with the red zone being up to 1.9 bar for short bursts. So 2.2 bar for just few seconds seems not to unreasonable 30 years later with all the supposed advances in engine cylinder pressure and engine mngt systems, one reason that modded 930 cars are so interesting vs stock ones, to some. They can be monster performers using the past technical advances, compliments of Porsche turbo racing development in the 70s and early 80s.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by DohertyCM

I wish he would sit down and talk about the mods he has done to his car... I am really curious.

One of the great builders is right in your back yard. Bob Norwood ( Norwood Autocraft) in Dallas who has 137 world records in the Guinness book of world speed records, many with turbos putting out way more cylinder pressure than 2.2 bar. I have one of his 930 motors built 10 years ago that is capable of 2.0 bar with 117 octane fuel and has over 7K miles of spirited driving. Last leak down was around 4% all cylinders and oil pressure pegs @ 3500 RPM hot. I run around 1.4 to 1.5 bar with 110 octane to be on the safe side.

[T77911S]

doesnt cam timing have a lot to do with being able to run 1.5bar?

i was on line playing with a dynamic compression ration calculator. 1.5bar with a intake closing at 100 ABDC has a static CR less than a stock 930 if i was doing it right.

i have seen were some of these new turbo cars are running 20+psi but i think they can do that do to much better head design and piston design, and theyu could be dual plug.

[Tippy]

I will be running 2.0 bar as soon as I get bigger injectors and of course on VP just for bragging rights. At 1.4 now on pump and that'll be street boost levels.

3 letters..... E.....F.....I.

[voitureltd]

[QUOTE=T77911S;7824999]doesnt cam timing have a lot to do with being able to run 1.5bar?

I think the factory 935s were using low compression of 7.0 or less for more volume of fuel mixture and the higher boost to compress the added space. I don't think high boost levels with a high compression air cooled motor will last too long although I am not a expert.

[juan ruiz]

DohertyCM

Build the engine right and it will last. The secret is in the tuning.

[copbait73]

....and he is not on pump gas he is fueling. Big difference.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

DohertyCM

Build the engine right and it will last. The secret is in the tuning.

OK, so if I bring mine in for dyno tune will it be tuned with all the secrets. Is their a price scale for the amount of tune secrets or are some kept for his own tune. Also will Eddie's tune guy do house calls to my dyno? I think it would be less expensive than shipping both ways. I have a few I think are well built as they were done by Promotive-Norwood-Jarvis but might benefit from a Bello tune.

[juan ruiz]

Bello's is currently traveling but he is currently doing house calls

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

Bello's is currently traveling but he is currently doing house calls

How do I sign up to acquire his tune services if/when they are available in WI? Also info on fees.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

How do I sign up to acquire his tune services if/when they are available in WI?

you have an amazing looking car...the underside is making me feel jealous!

dave Jarvis is a great name from the past. he made some very nice stuff!!!!

[Maltese Falcon]

Big boost is nothing new. Indy cars do it with NO intercooling, (alcohol for fuel is the trick). Drag racing 4 cyl VW/ Scat turbo engines with high octane fuel run 28-32 psi boost and are pulling sub 9 sec. quarter miles. Don't forget a 1,320' run at this boost would be torturous on a couple hour road racer. The 911 can get it done at 30 psi at the drags as we can see. If I was touring the dragstrips , my trailer would definitely have some spare engines / CMS transaxles on hand.
Marty

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by Ferraripete

you have an amazing looking car...the underside is making me feel jealous!

dave Jarvis is a great name from the past. he made some very nice stuff!!!!

The one in the previous posted photo is by Norwood. These other photos are from Jarvis motors. Yes he is a great name in motor building and his motors even have a following of impressed users on the west coast as I found out when I mentioned I had these two that were built by him when looking for spare parts. The first photo is a tarantula street motor. The others are from a motor built in the 90s that is now in a 1979 911SC ( 934.5) soon to be tested on track, after more dyno time, then offered for sale.

[Tippy]

I always struggle with "tuning secrets". Fuel side of EFI can only control pulse width of the injector.

Ignition side only controls timing.

There is nothing trick other than running lean as possible without torching the slugs with ideal amount of timing.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by Tippy

I always struggle with "tuning secrets". Fuel side of EFI can only control pulse width of the injector.

Ignition side only controls timing.

There is nothing trick other than running lean as possible without torching the slugs with ideal amount of timing.

Thanks, then maybe the new shop I use that has the yellow one can dial it in. He is involved recently with the latest tuning techniques with the Subaru and Nissan GTR type generation race car mngt systems ( newbie?) so maybe he can wrestle with the older electromotive and Motec systems to a safe high HP place. The silver one and the red one seem near that edge already. Thanks for your perspective.

[flashgordon64]

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

dohertycm

build the engine right and it will last. The secret is in the tuning.

+1

[DA VINCI]

Originally Posted by Tippy

I always struggle with "tuning secrets". Fuel side of EFI can only control pulse width of the injector.

Ignition side only controls timing.

There is nothing trick other than running lean as possible without torching the slugs with ideal amount of timing.

That is true. The real secret for high boost/power is the quality of the components used (pistons, rods, special bolts that contain the cylinder pressure, etc). For sure, Bello use high performance components. He DOESNT use the standard engine boosting at 2 bar.

[911nut]

Originally Posted by DA VINCI

That is true. The real secret for high boost/power is the quality of the components used (pistons, rods, special bolts that contain the cylinder pressure, etc). For sure, Bello use high performance components. He DOESNT use the standard engine boosting at 2 bar.

+1.
At the 1k hp level, the components can get very exotic.
There was an article in 911 & Porsche World (July 2011) about a 964 Turbo built for Texas Mile style of competitions that had a estimated +1k hp (the true figure was never revealed) @ 1.5 bar. Besides all the competition components and methods we are all familiar with (GT3 crank, shuffle pinned case, ect.) the engine was built with custom pistons and cylinder liners that screwed into the heads. Capacity is 3.4L and it used two K27-7200 turbos. I'm sure that there were a lot more custom components that were not mentioned in the article.

[juan ruiz]

Just for "Giggles" at the last Texas Mile Bello "Steam Rolled" ALL the Underground Lambos ALL of them at well over 1500AWHP. If you guys don't think that the Tuning is the key ingredient then I'm lost.

Tippy

I agree with your statement about fuel/timing however, at X load with X rpm under X boost at X distance you have to have the right fuel/timing combination, and to be right on the money at that time is not an easy quest, otherwise everyone here will be making 1K hp