Rebuild/Upgrade 3ldz
 

Thinking of having my 3LDZ rebuilt/upgraded by these guys, anyone used them? I am thinking of billet wheel upgrade....

Performance Techniques - Turbo, Turbos, and Turbochargers - For all your turbo needs!

This was their response:

1)Yes we do complete rebuild, upgrade and balance is $650.00
I normally use a a gt35r compressor wheel or I can do it with billet 62 wheel for $800.00
Turnaround is only approx. 2 days.

2)GT35 wheel upgrade will spool approx 700rpm later than stock and make 40% more HP
The 62 billet wheel will spool approx 500rpm later than stock and make 50% more HP
The k27 turbo will spool about the same as the 3ldz but will limit HP

I think the best option is the billet wheeled upgrade.

If it were me, I'd hold on to the turbo, pickle it for when you need it in the future, and buy a modern turbo.

But, I'm a glutton for punishment and fitting a modern turbo would probably take some modification.

Yeah, I just want a bolt on for now.

tim

Make sure you can trust this company. We used to handle these types of rebuilds until Asian knock-off rebuild parts hit the market. Every single turbo rebuilt after that point in time failed.

For KKK / 3K Borg Warner turbo rebuilds the best rebuilder in the USA is: Durabilt-Turbo.com - www.durabilt-turbo.com
If the parts are no longer available they will tell you and maybe they have some old stock around still or they can make NLA parts. They don't use parts from Asia.
They are one of the few places in the USA that have the VSR high speed turbo balancing machine.
You can watch a video of that on their website.
IMSA race teams send their turbos to be rebuilt there.

For Garret Turbos the best supplier, modifier, rebuilder in the USA is:
TurbosDirect.Com Web Site - Home

The problem was KKK/BW was buying some of the rebuild parts from Asia.
I don't know if they got the problem cleared up but it was devistating for many rebuilders who bought "official" parts.

Where did you get this information? UMW by chance?

I would be curious to run that by Durabilt and see what they say about it.
Either way Durabilt stands by their rebuilds with a Warranty.

I did the upgrade and felt it was money well spent, this is the least amount headache to upgrade. If you are wanting to put headers and a big turbo later you can always sell the 3ldz to someone like me.

Who did the upgrade, and what was done? Were you pleased with the performance?

tim

Hell no. I'm a dealer and one of my suppliers is Durabilt, another is KKK/BW. You're not going to find many KKK/BW dealers that will talk about the 3LDZ rebuild parts issue. Hopefully it was solved. I'm just throwing out the caveat, do with it what you will.

Brian, Sent you email on the headers....

tim

+1 for Durabilt!!

101 Turbo Q for dummies;
"GT35 wheel upgrade will spool approx 700rpm later than stock and make 40% more HP
The 62 billet wheel will spool approx 500rpm later than stock and make 50% more HP"

How does a turbo make more HP than another, other than raising boost pressure, ie is it possible that turbo A at 0.8 bar is making 50% less power than turbo B at 0.8 bar.
I understand that the wheel ratios affect spool time, power curve, max flow etc, but what parameters would alter to cause the quoted HP effects.
Thanks
Alan

Another 101 Turbo Q for Dummies question - who would possible want a turbo that spools later than the ridiculously late spooling stocker (3ldz)?!?!?

The simple answer is volume.
The more air a turbo can push at Xpsi the more power it can produce.
As for spooling later, that is probably a google translate error. :D

Mine starts to see boost at about 2200 RPM and full boost by 3000.

When I asked Mike at turbos Direct that same question he said the same thing: volume.
There's another dynamic too.. How hot the compressed air from the turbo is. Hot air is less dense and increases the chance of detonation. All turbos heat the air up to a degree but less efficient older design turbos like the 3ldz and k27 heat up the air more than than others like the new design ball bearing turbos from Garret.
Yeah, you can put a bigger better inter cooler in there but a newer more efficient turbo will always be better.

Ok, I just LOL'd by myself at a Subway. People are sure to think I'm looney......

OK, thanks Brian. I accept your answer - there had to be a reason, if the HP claim is correct. But I am still trying to understand it. The internals of the motor represent a restriction - intake manifold, head ports, butterfly throat etc. As we raise the pressure we squeeze more thru the restriction. So, I'm struggling to understand why 0.8 bar raised by one turbo flows more air than 0.8 bar by another turbo - accepting JFairmans explanation also. So, does it come down purely to a heat effect? Flowing slightly denser air thru the restriction at the same pressure?
Thanks
Alan

but if the turbo can produce 1 bar of pressure and maintain it at 7k RPM, would there be any more HP from a "bigger" turbo.
say turbo A can provide 1.1bar at 7k and maintain it, and turbo B can provide 1.6bar at 7K.
if the WG is set to 1bar, is there a HP gain with B?
(both hit 1bar at 3k RPM).

There's a lot of dynamics I'm sure (and I'm overly simplifying), but bigger turbos equals bigger power simply because:

1. Bigger compressor (in general) produce less heat at same airflow
2. Bigger turbine and turbine housings provide greater "torque" (less back pressure).

Couple together equals more power.

The trade off? Lag.

But, modern turbos have came along ways!

Smaller compressors are delivering more airflow and turbines have gotten less restrictive and decreasing back pressure. There's the dynamic part.

60mm on one turbo brand may flow more/less than another 60mm.

I talked with Bob at Durabuilt about modifying the 3dlz. He implied by the time you add in machining & labor you'd be better off going to a k27. He felt the 3dlz was good up to 325 chp. So staying with a K27 either the 7200 or 7006 seem to be the viable alternatives?

I'm running a modded 3ldz (because my race regs require original turbo). But I'm not complaining about it. Talk to rarelyl8.
Alan

For reference my 3LDZ managed 331whp.

Alan: What's your h.p.? Did you feel a difference from stock to modded?
16Volt: Is the 3ldz stock?
thanks.

Stock 3LDZ
B&B Headers/Exhaust/Intercooler
SC regrinds

gumba; my mods are on bottom of posting. I sourced the modified 3ldz thru rarelyl8.
Just did dyno run last week after putting engine back together. Tuning still off somewhat. More to come I think. But power curve was linear and strong up to 5800 rpm where we stopped run.
Regards
Alan

Interesting. I suspect with the originality craze in full bloom, there will be a lot of folks looking to hide some extra performance inside the guts of a 3LDZ. Talked to Chris @ TK long ago about this topic and he echoed the remarks above: K27 is better in every way and throwing work into a 3LDZ, although possible to improve perf, is still an endeavor suited only to special circumstances... like race regs.

I have since discovered the 930S came out with a k27, so that would let me move to another turbo. But this one seems to be doing OK at the moment. At the point of turbo rebuild I may change. But to answer original query completely, the M3ldz has more mid range/top end power. It just keeps pulling - up to 6000 at least. Brian suggested earlier boost onset - I'm not sure about that, but I don't think I lost anything there. It was a definite gain switching to the modified form.
Alan