Are they getting those prices on eBay?

[krasuskyp]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

How about 930 G50 Cab owned by Wayne Gretsky?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/867738-1989-porsche-911-turbo-g50-930-originally-owned-autographed-wayne-gretzky.html

Tony Peoni already attempted to address ^that one^, Matt...

...er, um... uhhhh...

...I mean "93097004xx" .

Um, yeah.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

Tony Peoni already attempted to address ^that one^, Matt...

...er, um... uhhhh...

...I mean "93097004xx" .

Um, yeah.

Um er yeah...

I'm guessing you didn't click the link and see that the car that DID NOT sell on Ebay at $95k is now listed here at $115K?

And I wasn't addressing Tony. I saw Tony's remarks.

[krasuskyp]

na yer right Matt I missed that my bad

but my comment wasn't as much a correction to you as it was... well... um er yeah.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

ohshiit... ^here we go again^

reallyreallyreally odd, Tony...

I wonder if 93097004xx is aware that there is a forum here dedicated to valuation topics (considering he is a "new" member and all that )?!?!?!

Porsche Marketplace Discussion - Pelican Parts Technical BBS


And that this thread is in place over there -

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/777746-notable-recent-sales.html

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by ficke

#2 cars could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 cars that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and interior will all appear as excellent.

Just to be very clear, a car with different or even better brakes and wheels would not "drive as a new car of its era would" once again eliminating a modified car as a possible #2

Who cares how Hagerty values a car with a few parts changed that make it better. I think they are jaded with all the fakes that permeate the other cars they know about. A # 1 condition car with the wrong brakes, exhaust, intercooler etc. Commmon!! If you can get someone to discount their #1 or #2 car at a 25 to 40% discount you, like they, are missing the forest for the trees. I'll even take it with a few stones in tire treads to seal the deal. What a bunch of blather and worse yet some actually think this is the real deal. If it's #1 or #2 with the correct parts installed and the gravel removed along with any other dirt. Get out your tooth brush and make $25 to $50K a pop if you can find anyone foolish to believe that stuff. Why would anyone sell a #1 or #2 car for #3 money if all it needs is $5 to $10K in parts with a professional full detail?? If taken literally, their condition assessment makes no sense. Also as far as true #1 values, originals bring lots more than restored #1s. Mainly because if restored it is not truly original anymore. I do not see that explained in their value assessment. This would also be relevant in #2 cars if original, not restored or need to be.. For #3 originals that just need a professional detail and minor repairs to be # 2, lots of money to be made if sellers believe Hagerty's broad brush assessments. Still original #1 #2 or #3, big value difference vs restored to original #1 and ageing original vs aging older restored in #2 or #3 catagories

[Tt surgeon]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

The original question asked if 930's on eBay are selling for six figures. The answer is NO.
Only collector grade 930's sell for six figures, eBay is wishful thinking for the market manipulators.

Both of my 930s ultimately sold for 6 figures, the slant for 135k (505) and the blue 88 for 103k. While the factory slant could be considered collector, the 88 wasn't. Original or close to cars hit the big numbers. Non factory slant conversions and those with irreversible mods lag behind money wise in the current market, even they will eventually ride the wave too. Anybody who wants to cash in should do it now imo, the current buying frenzy will cool shortly.
C

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

This seems about right for a cab. Cabriolets do not bring as much as coupes. The 1989 930 is no longer the grail car. It's time as top dog has passed. The early cars are where the interest is.

1 This car is a cab so it is not so desirable.
2 No one cares about hockey in the U.S.
3 1989 930s are no longer the most desirable.

GO HAWKS, HAWKS are going to eat the DUCKS.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

Who cares how Hagerty values a car with a few parts changed that make it better. I think they are jaded with all the fakes that permeate the other cars they know about. A # 1 condition car with the wrong brakes, exhaust, intercooler etc. Commmon!! If you can get someone to discount their #1 or #2 car at a 25 to 40% discount you, like they, are missing the forest for the trees. I'll even take it with a few stones in the wheel treads to seal the deal. What a bunch of blather and worse yet some actually think this is the real deal. If it's #1 or #2 with the correct parts installed and the gravel removed along with any other dirt. Get out your tooth brush and make $25 to $50K a pop if you can find anyone foolish to believe that stuff. Why would anyone sell a #1 or #2 car for #3 money if all it needs is $5 to $10K in parts with a professional full detail?? If taken literally, their condition assessment makes no sense. Also as far as true #1 values, originals bring lots more than restored #1. I do not see that explained in their value assessment. This would also be relevant in #2 cars. For #3 originals that just need a professional detail and minor repairs to be # 2, lots of money to be made if sellers believe Hagerty's broad brush assessments.

Sellers who believe, wanted.

I think you missed the point of this conversation.
The original question was "Are they getting those prices on Ebay?"
Some answered "no they are not" some answered "yes they are"
Many and myself agree for the right cars they are, and the cars that are not selling, are mostly likely because the cars are not as nice as the owners think they are.

People seem to be using this Hagerty valuation values but do not use the Hagerty definition of condition, I pointed that out by using Hagerty quoted definition to prove my observation. That does not mean I agree with the Hagerty definition.

I do feel people over value cars/ over price them for the condition and that is why they do not sell, I do not believe that the 930 market has taken a nose dive is the cause for the cars being relisted and unsold.

[voitureltd]

My point is Hagerty valuation is a broad brush approach that some take literately.

Still original #1 #2 or #3, big value difference vs restored to original #1 and excellent aging original vs aging older restored in #2 or #3 categories. Restored cars are worth less than originals mainly because they are not truly original anymore. Sympathetically freshened up originals that go from #3 to #2 or from #2 to #1 just are better cars to many knowledgeable buyers as they are preserved and did not need to be completely refurbished, refinished , or worse yet pieces were used from other cars to make it a complete.car needed because of accident or deteriorated so badly they are not reusable. Hagerty does not clarify that difference, which I believe causes some of the problems when people try to place a value with buying or selling. I do not do appraisals anymore ( I'm retired ) but these situations are why professional appraisers that are conversant in a particular model (lets say a 930 ) can be helpful if deciding to buy or sell.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

My point is Hagerty valuation is a broad brush approach that some take literately.

Still original #1 #2 or #3, big value difference vs restored to original #1 and excellent aging original vs aging older restored in #2 or #3 categories. Restored cars are worth less than originals mainly because they are not truly original anymore. Sympathetically freshened up originals that go from #3 to #2 or from #2 to #1 just are better cars to many knowledgeable buyers as they are preserved and did not need to be completely refinished. Hagerty does not clarify that difference, which I believe causes some of the problems when people try to place a value with buying or selling. I do not do appraisals anymore ( I'm retired ) but these situations are why professional appraisers that are conversant in a particular model (lets say a 930 ) can be helpful if deciding to buy or sell.

Makes sense, I agree and feel the same.
Hagerty's is a lagging valuation on something as broad as the condition and selection of cars. It has many holes in it and has many flaws.
But Hagerty is very clear on the wording right or wrong of their view of condition, it is clearly written out. So when using a source, use all of it, as the source intended and not pick and choose what suits your fancy.
There is no all encompassing source for values on emotional buys like used toy cars.
No source should be used as the 'gospel'
An original survivor cars will be 'off the charts' they fall under special treatment and should be handled individually

The problem I have with pricing modified cars is the huge variation in modifications. Many are great and can hugely improve the car, turbo, exhaust, etc. but I have seen an equal amount of stuff that at best is a sideways move and alot that made the car worse.
Some people think they car was improved by removing the AC other see that as a minus. A heavy grabby clutch is considered another improvement by some. Roll cages in street cars, improvement? In extreme case removing the Porsche engine and installing a SBC and thinking your car is still a #2 by Hagerty valuation and you should be able to get $160,000 for it??
So having a base line and consistent meanings is important in conversation about chaotic values.

[pu911]

The market for anything is quite simple- if item has a demand and is priced appropriately it sells. If price is too high it doesn't. This is true for all markets ebay or not. A lot of very over priced 930's listed for sale currently- these are fishing expeditions not serious for sale offers. Good cars bring good (market appropriate) money period. Over priced cars don't sell, never have never will.
Phil

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by pu911

The market for anything is quite simple- if item has a demand and is priced appropriately it sells. If price is too high it doesn't. This is true for all markets ebay or not. A lot of very over priced 930's listed for sale currently- these are fishing expeditions not serious for sale offers. Good cars bring good (market appropriate) money period. Over priced cars don't sell, never have never will.
Phil

True, however when buyers/sellers use these vague Hagerty value definitions it can skew the real condition vs the value. A sharp buyer can get a real good deal if condition is really original/vs restored to original in a #1 #2 #3 conditions if a seller just takes Hagerty's condition definitions. I have seen lots of cars that someone way over paid for and some that were a steal. In general your overall perspective is right,, but only most of the time.

[wobbiest]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Really really nice '78 930 just sold on eBay for $72,800.
Yes prices have risen for nice cars, but not nearly as much as the flippers would have you believe.
A G50 '89 Cab is not desirable? COMPLETE BS. Collectors don't drive cars, they could care less if they have race history. They are after whatever brings the money.

We expected a little more for the car. Was expecting in the 75-80k range, but 73k I think was still correct. A good buy and a fair sell. I think a car similar to that should expect 70-85k depending on miles etc. We were hoping for closer to 80k after the back and forth, but alas, not in the cards.

That said, Ebay is one of the best ways to get an idea of true market value. There is WAY too much traffic especially for Porsche, Ferrari, etc that the market will not allow cars to sell under true market value. In a no reserve auction THAT IS market value. So as much as people can ask $140k for the same car, the market dictates that is not what it is worth, otherwise you would see bidding rise. There are car specific issues or seasonality issues etc that can influence that, but if you want the best sense for the value of a car, check out Ebay sold listings particularly with No Reserve.

Could we have gotten 80 or 90 for the car? Maybe if we sat on it, but then you are playing the market game and 10 years in investment banking in my prior life told me quite clearly that money in pocket now is worth much more than future cash flows, especially when we are playing around with only a few thousand or so in either direction.

93097004 - I think your bracket for the pricing on the first page isnt quite right. You can't put 76/77 in the same grouping as 78/79. Drastically different.

[93097004xx]

93097004 - I think your bracket for the pricing on the first page isnt quite right. You can't put 76/77 in the same grouping as 78/79. Drastically different.

Yes they are different. 76/77 were built in roughly the same numbers as the 78/79 cars. The 76/77 and the 78/79 are the early cars and have unique features and driving characteristics unto themselves. As to if the 78/79 will climb closer to the 76/77 who knows.

[pu911]

You can't even lump the 76 & 77 together, similar cars but 76 hands down brings more $$.
Phil

[krasuskyp]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

93097004 - I think your bracket for the pricing on the first page isnt quite right. You can't put 76/77 in the same grouping as 78/79. Drastically different.

Yes they are different. 76/77 were built in roughly the same numbers as the 78/79 cars. The 76/77 and the 78/79 are the early cars and have unique features and driving characteristics unto themselves. As to if the 78/79 will climb closer to the 76/77 who knows.

ifffffffffffffffffffffffffff onnnnnnnnnnnnnnlyyy Tony Peoni would weigh in round these here parts and bestow his eternal "I don't ever really drive my 930 - oh, the hoorrrrrrrror!!!" wisdom upon us all???!!!

[wildturkey]

The first 120 or so ROW 76 cars where part of the "Homoligation production"

This never gets a mention?

[klefroid]

You can pick up my 78 euro matching numbers for 80K all day long...! Someone? :-D

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Really really nice '78 930 just sold on eBay for $72,800.
Yes prices have risen for nice cars, but not nearly as much as the flippers would have you believe.... They are after whatever brings the money.

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

"Really really nice '78 930 just sold on eBay for $72,800." Yes I think that was right for that car. It was not a 100k car. Incorrect bits here and there. 100,000 mile car but pretty good shape.

Originally Posted by wobbiest

We expected a little more for the car. Was expecting in the 75-80k range, but 73k I think was still correct. A good buy and a fair sell.

For sure.

No offense meant but the car looked to be a great driver - and no more. The miles to begin with were over the "magic mark" for highest resale, and the brown interior is a show stopper for many. To quote this as "really really nice" is a stretch IMO. But perhaps your "really really" is my "its a clean driver".

The colors have to be right, and the car needs to be around 50k miles or less to be all the money. Not my rules, just stating facts.

Bonus: I have been part of several recent 930 & 911 turbo sales that boggle the mind. They are bringing the money, but they have to be #2 cars or better. Not unremarkable clean drivers.