Carrera Tensioner Upgrade

[RarlyL8]

We are rebuilding a '79 930 engine that does not have the Carrera tensioner upgrade. The engine will be restored to bone stock.
Seems like a stupid question to ask but will the addition of this upgrade be considered a detriment when selling it?

[turbo owner]

If the car is a #1 or 2 it will, driver quality, no.

[DSPTurtle]

I always see peoples eyes light up when you say if has the tensioner upgrade. I've never heard of anyone saying it would reduce value.
When/if you do it, take a look at the idler arms. Supertec has a plug and play, swap out solution that adds both a bushing and an integral spacer for using the new hydraulic tensioner units. Not very expensive when you look at the benefit and the substitute cost of the spacer. You really don't want your brand new tensioner to suck at its job because the idler arm seizes.

[zakthor]

I read some discussion that 930 tensioners are better than the other non-oil fed units. Might be true but my 930 tensioners were failing so I replaced with the oil fed ones (with newer idler arms.) Now they are something I don't need to worry about.

I keep hearing rumors that there's some freak show of originality buffs with thick wallets. Hard to believe there so many that we should worry about it.

I wonder if there is also a parallel forum somewhere... people that worship originality hang out and talk about the best wax and beryllium copper washers for their air pumps and thermal reactors?

How about save the old tensioners and chain covers in a box for the buyer that wants to restore the car to absolute stock.

[krasuskyp]

^^^nailed it - ROFLMAO thanks^^^

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I keep hearing rumors that there's some freak show of originality buffs with thick wallets and zero mechanical sense. Hard to believe there so many that we should worry about it.

I wonder if there is also a parallel forum somewhere... people that worship originality hang out and talk about the best wax and beryllium copper washers for their air pumps and thermal reactors?

I added a little somehing - hope you don't mind!

Most excellent, and spot on commentary, by the way!

[RarlyL8]

The only reason to ask such a strange question is I have zero understanding of what the market now values in terms of post-date OEM upgrades for the 930. Case in point would be the original SSI exchangers on the 911. In stainless steel they were a vast improvement over stock. Many upgrades over time that were adopted by Porsche will enhance an older engine, but will they reduce value if we build the engine back to bone stock and market it as such?
This has me thinking that I may approach this the way I have always approached engine mods for our clients, clean and package the stock parts for storage. Maybe I'll use a spare set of chain covers for the tensioner install and include the untouched covers with the engine. That should work for everyone I would think.

[jay72]

I have never seen any evidence of tensioner upgrade hurting the value of even the most pristine car. I have seen high dollar early 911s at the big auctions (RM, Gooding) that bring serious serious money and in the catalog they mention the upgrade as a positive. No points are deducted in PCA concours events either. It has always been considered a sensible recommended upgrade for engine safety. I think there is a big difference with regards to hurting the value when it comes to aftermarket engine performance mods to addressing potential engine damage that could result from a flaw in the original tensioners with a factory part.

[kenikh]

Shiiiit... My 66 and 69S run 930 tensioners with collars. Both make any 930 look cheap these days. Only car I own with pressure fed is my 930. Only because it came with them.

My point: Both work. I don't consider pressure fed any better.

[Norm K]

I read everything I could find before rebuilding my engine. No small item of decision was which tensioners to employ: later 930-style with collars or pressure-fed. Although many folks seem to think their opinion is the definitive one, the experts are clearly divided on which, if either, is the better choice. With that in mind, and having just disassembled an engine that went 106K miles with stock tensioners, I decided to stay with the factory 930 ones. So far - consternation and nashing-of-teeth over an engine noise that was a figment of my imagination notwithstanding - so good.

[RarlyL8]

Great information, thank you guys!
This is a topic I never imagined would come up but it did. Sounds like using the standard 930 tensioners is appropriate for this build.

[confused]

I used to run an independent dealership where we sold a bunch of Porsches, the amount of people who walked up and requested pressure fed tensioners and a G50 was amazing, most had no idea why but they were told that and they only want to buy my 78 SC that I have if it has upgraded tensioners and a G50 (no they were not very well informed). Look at the pelican description on the retail side and they say it's not a question of if but when they will fail so you must buy our expensive piece of mind kit where we sell you everything you need and a bunch of other things we imply you need and we make money on selling you stuff. This is simply marketing talk intended to scare you into buying the upgrade.

I have since in so many years resurrected so many early 911s that I can not remember them all. From my experience the only engines that had chain tensioner failure were engines in poor condition. Many 2.7 engines had tensioner failure along with head studs pulling but this was due to govt interference as Porsche was forced to make the 2.7s run nuclear hot @ 260 degrees so they would burn off emissions - the heat destroyed everything. On the earlier cars that did fail I usually see very dirty oil, neglect, and the idler arm had been seized to the shaft on some! The upgraded idler arm is much more important than the tensioners.

Simple study, ask every engine builder you can find who really knows his stuff, not a clown. None of us who build numerous engines have had tensioner failure from a fresh engine build on original units. The people who push the pressure fed tensioner as a must are parts vendors and people who have already drunk the cool aid and bought a set for their car. I think I could make an extra $400-500 profit on top of the build by selling the upgrade - why not make a few bucks more through intimidation. Nothing wrong with pressure fed tensioners, although they can fail just like the older version, pressure fed works but it is not mandatory.

I move to abolish this myth that we must upgrade to pressure fed. I feel the engines look more pure with period correct parts, save the look of the original design, you can change anything internally to make the engine work better in my book but keep the original look - yes you can have an awesome engine that is reliable and looks stock, it may take a bit more effort and cost a dollar or two more but that is better than being a hack cutting your tin adding goofed modern parts and then saying you have a better car. As a buyer I absolutely value the guy that went the extra effort to make their car as good as possible while retaining the original look. I just finished a 73 2.4s engine and I used new 930 tensioners (overkill as you can rebuild the old ones but this was a pricey build), supertec idler arms, new chains/ramps and set the cam height properly and this engine should be good for the next 30 years, it looks perfectly stock.

In the big auction for a car worth all the money, 1000 people will look at the car, 100 of those people will notice the pressure fed tensioners, out of that 100 only 1 would be a buyer - will the decision to buy hinge on later tensioners - probably not.

Oh geeze this soap box I was standing on just caved in

[Norm K]

I should've mentioned that part of what made me stay with 930 tensioners/collars was the idea that I might (and perhaps it's even likely that I would) hear a 930 one making noise prior to ultimate failure, versus having one of the fragile (looking anyway) pressure fed oil lines fail and losing the bottom end of my engine before knowing anything was wrong.

[RarlyL8]

For the purpose of this thread performance of the modification is meaningless, it is a matter of acceptance, or not, that this mod is viewed as desirable by a potential buyer. If the external oil ines are a turn-off to someone looking for a stock engine then I won't use them. If most think they are a must-have then I will use them.
Looks like from the responses that it doesn't really matter so I'll just use the stock setup. It will be built right so I'm not worried about failure of any sort.

[jwasbury]

+1 on the idler arm upgrade. My '79 had early style idler arms and there was clear evidence of oil starvation. The arm was noticeably binding on the pivot shaft, and I had the shaft changed out by my machine shop prior to reassembly.

[SoyRacer]

Here's my opinion on restoration/value. I've been going crazy lately trying to find clean magnesium pieces for restoration cars or date correct oil coolers etc. etc. Idiotic in my opinion but that's what people want and they're paying the bills.

So . . . I was very much anticipating the arrival of a 1973 911-RS lightweight that was purchased for over $1,600,000.00 to see just what you get for that amount of cheese.
Hands down- gorgeous car (on my Instagram) but I found it interesting that it had turbo aluminum upper and lower rocker covers, SSIs and a Dansk muffler. I just pulled the drivetrain to reseal the transmission and keep finding updated parts here and there. Some items I'm going to correct, the others just make me feel better and less anxious about updates and concours "judging".

[RarlyL8]

The Carrera tensioner debate was settled for me. I asked our mechanic to order whatever parts the engine needed to do the build right. No short cuts. Carrera tensioners were part of the order.

[Janusz1]

Could somebody explain how an uneducated person like me can determine if my 1978 930 has stock or updated tensioner?

[IMR-Merlin]

They have oil lines going into them.

[Janusz1]

Thank you!
I have these oil lines.
Does it mean I have Carrera tensioners or there is (was) some other option?
But generally it is a good thing, right?

The driver side is slightly leaking oil.