Boost controller: Manual vs Electronic controller? ...naive question

[baloo]

Stock 1987 3.2 with low boost turbo conversion (0.5bar spring). Car used only in street -- never to be tracked -- only a hobby car that I dither with, but like to go fast.

Naive question....
Any recommendations for type of boost controller: manual vs electronic?
Issues would be:
1) Reliability;
2) Complexity;
3) Do the troubles of electronic (if any) outweigh the costs?
4) Do the costs of electronic outweigh the resulting improvements over a manual controller?
5) Am I bothering with too minor a detail?

The reason I ask is that my car came with the display unit ONLY of a 1990s-ish HKS Electronic Boost Controller (EVC) mounted on my dash. All other parts are missing (hoses, stepping motor, harness, etc.). (See attached pic.)

Is it is worth completing this HKS unit installation, or should I just chuck it and get a new electronic controller, or should I just go with a manual boost controller (much less expensive, I think).

Thanks for any adivce/opinions.

[356911930]

I think they are a cool toy. You can set to .3 or .4 bar for daily driving to take some of the youthful exuberance out of normal driving and "turn it up" for those "special occasions". It's a cool gadget so get what appeals to you.

Rahl

[16Volt]

Electronic boost control (IMO) is superior in every way to manual controllers. The only caveat is that like the old school 'Dial-O-Death', you can crank boost pressure up well beyond your talent/clutch/motor/turbos capacity.

The HKS unit you have is a cool 'period' piece, I would however replace with a newer Greddy or HKS unit.

Remember, the lowest that you can go boost level wise is what your WG spring is.

[Jeff NJ]

I have a Grimmspeed MBC. It is extremely simple and easy to setup, very accurate and consistent, no electronics, and is in the engine bay to avoid the urge to crank up the boost on the fly.

To me, I am not certain why the boost levels would be adjusted once you have it set to your desired boost levels. Why drop it once you have it set to your max safe boost level that you are comfortable with and why would you have it set for a lower boost limit than what you would turn it up to on occasion?

[baloo]

Great inputs so far.
Thanks.
Welcome other remarks.

[16Volt]

With electronic control in addition to having multiple pre-set limits you can adjust onset ramp.

Some folks prefer having a low boost (WG spring) setting for driving in rain etc.

That desire though comes with added complexity of install of course.

Different strokes, different folks.

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

With electronic control in addition to having multiple pre-set limits you can adjust onset ramp.

Some folks prefer having a low boost (WG spring) setting for driving in rain etc.

That desire though comes with added complexity of install of course.

Different strokes, different folks.

I agree those are advantages for some for an EBC. And yes, DS, DF. What's awesome is that we have so many ways to address issues like this!

[baloo]

OK, so I can see some reasons to go with the e-control.

Now, is this controller something that requires precision, or is it something pretty basic, such that "quality" is only in appearance and materials, and not in function?

In other words, can a cheap controller from Ebay perform the same function as a high dollar item from high dollar name-brand performance companies? (Similar to the quandary: does the water from "pristine Colorado mountain springs" really make a difference in beer taste in comparison with beer made in St Louis using St Louis treated water?)

I see there are controllers that are in the shape of round 52mm gauges, and also those that combine a turbo timer function.

Hoping for some comments.

[philip j]

I have this unit, which looks the same as yours. I purchased it here on the board, and didn't get around to installing it. It's for sale, and about 1/2 of what I paid for it currently. Philip

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/882906-hks-electronic-boost-controler.html

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

I have a Grimmspeed MBC. It is extremely simple and easy to setup, very accurate and consistent, no electronics, and is in the engine bay to avoid the urge to crank up the boost on the fly.

To me, I am not certain why the boost levels would be adjusted once you have it set to your desired boost levels. Why drop it once you have it set to your max safe boost level that you are comfortable with and why would you have it set for a lower boost limit than what you would turn it up to on occasion?

I have the same. Works great... Car was set up with 1 bar by prior owner, I turn it down and do 0.7 on the track... Better safe, than sorry. Works fine.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

To me, I am not certain why the boost levels would be adjusted once you have it set to your desired boost levels. Why drop it once you have it set to your max safe boost level that you are comfortable with and why would you have it set for a lower boost limit than what you would turn it up to on occasion?

A "valet mode" where there is little to no boost available.

[JFairman]

Some MSD ignitions have a separate rev limiter for valet mode you can program and turn on with a switch when wanted.

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by baloo

OK, so I can see some reasons to go with the e-control.

Now, is this controller something that requires precision, or is it something pretty basic, such that "quality" is only in appearance and materials, and not in function?

In other words, can a cheap controller from Ebay perform the same function as a high dollar item from high dollar name-brand performance companies? (Similar to the quandary: does the water from "pristine Colorado mountain springs" really make a difference in beer taste in comparison with beer made in St Louis using St Louis treated water?)

I see there are controllers that are in the shape of round 52mm gauges, and also those that combine a turbo timer function.

Hoping for some comments.

I have way too much money into this car/motor to shop on price for something as important as boost control. Personally I would go with a recent unit from Greddy or HKS. Just my opinion.

I have run Greddy Profec SpecB in previous VWs, in the 930 I have a HKS EVC-S. I purchased instead of the Greddy since it is 'less disco' and I dont need the interior of the car looking like a space shuttle cockpit.

EVC-S | ELECTRONICS | PRODUCT | HKS

[baloo]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

I have way too much money into this car/motor to shop on price for something as important as boost control. Personally I would go with a recent unit from Greddy or HKS. Just my opinion.

....

Yah, I guess my question of "what can possibly go wrong with these simple devices?" is the kiss of death.
You never find out what can POSSIBLY go wrong, until the unimaginable happens.
THEN, it becomes very obvious, huh.

Still would like some input from those who have tried the cheap EBay e-controllers. Sometimes Levis are Levis, whether you buy them at WalMart or Nieman-Marcus.

[TurboKraft]

And afterwards, make sure you shop for engine rebuild parts on EBay, too...

This is like your brakes: you wouldn't be shopping eBay for cheaper almost-like-the-good-ones pads and rotors. The downside risk far exceeds any nominal cost savings.

We've had cars in our shop -- some of them belonging to guys on this forum -- with knock-off wastegates, blow-off valves, manual boost controllers, turbochargers... We had one car with a freshly built engine trailered to us for first start-up and tuning. All good until she got good and hot under full load, the she over-boosted and wiped out some rings because the wastegate suddenly seized. Looked like a Tial, but wasn't. eBay. "They had a better price than anyone else..." Gee, I wonder why?

16Volt hit it on the head: buy a good one from a reputable manufacturer, and buy it from an authorized distributor listed on the manufacturer's website. So much counterfeit stuff on eBay it is not worth the risk, not on these important items.



Sorry, rant over.

[356911930]

I agree that you should buy a good quality wastegate, that is not In question.

Shouldn't the overboost switch prevent overboosting due to failed wastegate?

Are these guys with failures running with the overbooste switch?

Rahl

[TurboKraft]

I've tested many of those overboost switches and in my experience, the only thing consistent about them is they are inconsistent.
We've installed factory 1.0bar wastegate springs and tripped the overboost switch. External boost gauge shows no overboost.
Seen other cars hit 1.4 on a 935 boost gauge because of damaged WG diaphragm, switch not tripped.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

I've tested many of those overboost switches and in my experience, the only thing consistent about them is they are inconsistent.
We've installed factory 1.0bar wastegate springs and tripped the overboost switch. External boost gauge shows no overboost.
Seen other cars hit 1.4 on a 935 boost gauge because of damaged WG diaphragm, switch not tripped.

CHris -- I'm slow, but unfortunately also largely ignorant on this...
Are you saying that any electronic or manual boost controller is unreliable?

Thanks for clarifying.

[TurboKraft]

I'm saying the original overboost switch on the engine is unreliable.

[356911930]

Is there a simple way to test the overbooste switch?

Rahl