930 Accident - RIP

[reachme]

If you click on the link it does say it was a cab..

HPD says a man died when he crashed a classic Porsche Turbo Cabriolet. . .
There are pictures of the road with flags planted to show his path before the crash and (though I'm no accident re-creator guy) it looks like he came around a turn and hit or went up on both curbs and lost complete control. It's a reminder to us all that trees make a horrible catch fence.

[kevin930t]

Yea i to noticed that

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[slow&rusty]

A very sad incident and RIP and many prayers to his family. From the news article he was admired and highly respected in the medical community.

The accident happened relatively close to where I live and work but I am unfamiliar with that specific road.

The car does certainly appear modified with an Andial intercooler and GHL or Fabspeed headers with heat.
As mentioned up above, the tires look old and questionable.

I recently changed my tires as well for this same reason, they were old and getting hard.

The 930 is a car that I continue to thoroughly respect when I drive it.

[Mick_D]

I think this sort of armchair analysis is just what the family needs. You guys are all heart.

[cellison]

Oh lord that is awe full. it reminds me how lucky I have been at times.... and NOT SMART... condolences to the family. RIP...

[Tippy]

What's horrible, is it looks like it was a cluster of trees he hit. A few feet either left or right, he might have been ok.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

I think this sort of armchair analysis is just what the family needs. You guys are all heart.

There are pros and cons to this argument. I participate in two sports in which there are regular fatalities, technical cave diving (arguably the most dangerous sport in the world) and experimental aviation.

One forum (tech diving forums) specifically allows analysis and discussion of accidents and fatalities. Analysis of the accidents is how we understand what went wrong, how we evolve new rules, and ultimately helps keep those left alive, alive. Remember, every single good rule we have developed was paid for in blood.

The other forum specifically prohibits any discussion of fatal accidents. I believe this is a significantly short sighted viewpoint. It's banned based on what you imply, it might hurt someone's feelings. Frankly, if the are that upset, they aren't likely to be out trolling around on the forums.

I agree it is important to be respectful, but at the same time analysis of these events is valuable to the rest of us if performed with some thought in mind. If anyone doesn't like it, they are free to not click.

[IMR-Merlin]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

There are pros and cons to this argument. I participate in two sports in which there are regular fatalities, technical cave diving (arguably the most dangerous sport in the world) and experimental aviation.

One forum (tech diving forums) specifically allows analysis and discussion of accidents and fatalities. Analysis of the accidents is how we understand what went wrong, how we evolve new rules, and ultimately helps keep those left alive, alive. Remember, every single good rule we have developed was paid for in blood.

The other forum specifically prohibits any discussion of fatal accidents. I believe this is a significantly short sighted viewpoint. It's banned based on what you imply, it might hurt someone's feelings. Frankly, if the are that upset, they aren't likely to be out trolling around on the forums.

I agree it is important to be respectful, but at the same time analysis of these events is valuable to the rest of us if performed with some thought in mind. If anyone doesn't like it, they are free to not click.

I grew up in the aviation community in North New England and all pilots had friends they lost. They would talk about what the causes were in a very analytical way, taking the human element out of it. They all wanted to learn from their friends mistakes. Some of my fathers best friends were killed, another is the highest hour Mitsubishi MU-2 pilot in the world and the NTSB would fly him in for any crashed related to that aircraft.

I saw no problems with the posts in this thread. If speed (not a medical condition) was the cause, then it's driver error and luckily there wasn't anyone on the sidewalk or in oncoming traffic.

Point being, learn from other peoples mistakes, look at the causes and respect your environment.

[Mick_D]

you guys are all heart. Now it's all ab out how close to death you get in your hobbies and lives, is it? fine, I'm out of line.
Here, hold my beer.

[93097004xx]

Not trying to sound like a total jerk because no car is worth anyone's life but this references a study I'm doing now on 930 attrition rates. I fully believe it is 35% or greater. These cars not only suffered from age, neglect, but also incidents like these that are very regretful. I can say full well that a 930 in the wrong hands is death waiting at the doorstep. Again thoughts and prayers to the family.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

you guys are all heart. Now it's all ab out how close to death you get in your hobbies and lives, is it? fine, I'm out of line.
Here, hold my beer.

You are not doing an adequate job of reading what has been posted (aka - you're just making **** up that suits your personal agenda, and raises your high horse even higher).

[Mick_D]

Right. I did say i was out of line.

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

You are not doing an adequate job of reading what has been posted (aka - you're just making **** up that suits your personal agenda, and raises your high horse even higher).

[16Volt]

These cars are tricky, no one here will argue that. As many people smarter than I have posted, get an education if you want to best prepared for what it means to drive a high horsepower car which has essentially a VW beetle suspension.

That being said, none of us know the victim, the car or the circumstances so any speculation is pointless. Being an ex-pilot I understand the references but this is completely different than an NTSB probe. None of us know anything, and that is highly unlikely to change.

Perhaps the best response is to be safe, be educated and be thankful.

[unclebilly]

When these cars are stock, they aren't that difficult to drive.

The problem is that they are easy to modify into something difficult for the average driver (without some form of credible HP driving training) to handle at speed.

People like to play with the stock suspension settings (ride height) or beef up the sway bars. This enhances the car's tendency for throttle lift oversteer. Out of the box, an air cooled 911 has under steer.

In our 73 911 endurance racer, where people unfamiliar with 911 handling characteristics (but experienced racers) would be racing, we intentionally never ran a rear sway bar to maintain the forgiving characteristics of these cars. We were giving up lap times for a more forgiving car.

These cars are not widow makers out of the box, people turn them into widow makers.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

When these cars are stock, they aren't that difficult to drive.

The problem is that they are easy to modify into something difficult for the average driver (without some form of credible HP driving training) to handle at speed.

People like to play with the stock suspension settings (ride height) or beef up the sway bars. This enhances the car's tendency for throttle lift oversteer. Out of the box, an air cooled 911 has under steer.

In our 73 911 endurance racer, where people unfamiliar with 911 handling characteristics (but experienced racers) would be racing, we intentionally never ran a rear sway bar to maintain the forgiving characteristics of these cars. We were giving up lap times for a more forgiving car.

These cars are not widow makers out of the box, people turn them into widow makers.

Unclebilly, I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with that.. the name "widowmaker" was attached to these cars early on, during the days when the "Turbo Carrera" was first introduced on US soil. It was evident that these cars, if not driven properly, or driven by someone experienced in the art of “azz-out” driving, often ended with disastrous circumstances.
I've known techs that have told stories about seeing a new Turbo Carrera being sold, and leaving the dealers lot, while bets taken amongst employees as to how soon it would be back on a tow-truck. And unfortunately many returned totaled, with news of the drivers being hurt or worse.

Many a driver of the stock 930 has been bitten by simply coming into or out of a curve or turn when the boost suddenly hit.. and when it did, things happened fast! Typically it was jump suddenly off the gas an onto the brake.. mistake! Others were simply caught off guard and don’t lift at all.

Funny thing is, a stock normally aspirated 911 will nail your arse in the same manner if you’re not adept to how these cars handle. You have weight behind the axle, it’s just simple geometry.. add enough speed, the right change in axis, with enough slip in traction and away you go.. the Turbo just makes it more brutal.

You on the other hand are an experienced racer, with some time behind the wheel of these machines.. I think it has jaded you. I too have years of experience with these tail happy cars both on track and street, from 356 through GT3RS and I never let my guard down.. because I like to push’m, and of course the margin of error narrows when you do. Respect these cars and don’t be fooled as they will bite you if given the opportunity.

[911nut]

+1 Onboost.
What catches people out is being in the middle of a turn with the throttle mashed and the boost hits. Lack of experience or impairment compound the error.

[sck007]

Originally Posted by Brainz

That stretch of road runs along the bayou, which makes it one of Houston's few interesting, curvy roads in town. But it also has very poor asphalt due to the poor soil conditions surrounding the bayou (which regularly floods) - - lots of rough, uneven pavement and swales that can hold a bit of water and/or upset car balance. Posted speed is ~35, if I recall. Pine trees on one side, and a big, deep, water-filled ditch on the other - - not a lot of room for error at high speed (which would be anything above 55 IMO). My thoughts go to his friends and family. Be safe.

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+1, plus parts road are not well lit, even lighted areas cast a lot of shadows that make it difficult to determine depth perception along curves and straight aways. I drive that road daily and any car needs decent suspension for all the above reasons mentioned just driving posted speed limit..

[930cabman]

Sorry billy, any reasonably tuned (stock) 930 can kick a novices a**. anybody thinking different is crazy. It took me easily 3 or 4 months to be even a little comfortable with our 930 cab. One of my last rides of 2015 gave me a minor scare on dry good pavement.

Unless you have track training from a pro, take it easy. Life is fragile

[reachme]

I remember turbopalooza 2014 when we had 8 or 9 of us all following each other out of a gas station. We were going downhill at a good rate. The lead driver turns the corner, Jacob probably and immediately stops at the stop sign.
One by one we jam on the brakes, our asses rose up in the air but nobody flipped around. I recall keeping better distance after that!

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by reachme

I remember turbopalooza 2014 . . . our asses rose up in the air . . .

Reacharound, you just described all day, every day for Paul!!!