reality checks-oil leaks

[cellison]

I need a reality check on oil leaks on the 930. For my points of reference, I am looking at 1.) my 88 cab which I have had for 14 years and with 98k on the clock doesn't leak a drop ( I should not have said that, and 2.) my 74 tr6 which had a lot of leak several years ago. I took it to a British wrench who tried to fix all of them, but after several attempts could not get the front mail seal to stay dry. I ultimately put some STP stop leak in it and it has remained bone dry for 2 years.

To the 930, I has an engine out in the fall for some things and one was to fix /reseal the engine to address the oil leaks, gear box rebuild and whatever needed to be done (open checkbook). The car is now back in for the 3rd time to fix some leaks which are still happening (both sides from the valve covers and which he is struggling to stop leaking and trying different gaskets/nuts, another one being investigated. he said he may need to drop the engine again for the one being investigated (cam seal ? but cant remember) but is engine oil and not tranny. For a sanity check, for an engine out open check book service to fix the leaks (and other stuff) , I would have expected ALL the leaks to have been fixed. Were my expectations to high?

BTW oil being used on all cars is VR1 20/50 fossil (not synthetic)

[1979-930]

I have not had my car long enough to give first hand experience, but I did receive a folder with every repair receipt that was ever done. After going through the entire folder one night I realize two things.

The A/C will never work and oil leaks will never stop.

It has a leak now that appears to be the rear main. I will say that the oil leaks from the valve covers seemed to stop after the Thermo Reactors were removed. I think it was 1996 or so that the headers were installed. Maybe the extra exhaust heat contributes to gasket failure.

[jimtweet]

I had similar valve cover leaks on my 1980 930. I bought new lower covers, I sprayed new gaskets with copper gasket spray, like 4-5 light coats on both sides. I let that sit a few hours and installed, Knock on wood, nothing for about a year...

Now I have 3 other leaks, but those are a different story.

[jimtweet]

And yes, I have owned 6 of these cars now and never once had a working AC. I have never been in a old Pcar with working AC. I never saw the need to spend the money to fix. I have always removed and sold the parts.

[cellison]

yea my ac doesn't work on either pcar (or CRX) and I don't care.

my real question is should I expect him to drop the engine again to fix the mystery leak.... and if so should I be charged for it? He is a known marque 930 expert and why I took it to him in the first place. I am thinking about selling the car an would have a hard time advertising an engine out reseal to fix the oil leaks except for leak "x" which will cost $xx to fix.

I will call him Friday to get an update but would like opinions.

[willtel]

I don't think it is out of line to expect it not to leak, especially from something straightforward like the valve covers. At the very least they should offer you a labor discount if the engine has to come out again. Who is working on it?

I think you can get the AC working on them but it costs lots of money to upgrade all the shortcomings of the factory system. I'll never bother with mine.

I'm fixing an AC issue now in a '91 M5 I recently bought and I think a seal in the compressor is bad. That is going to be almost $500 to fix with me doing all the work. In stark contrast I'm adding AC to my 1985 Toyota pickup which never had factory air and all the parts to retrofit it (used) cost $550 from a Toyota salvage yard. Damn Germans...

[skimp930]

cellison,

Sounds familiar. We may using the same mechanic.

[ChrisD87]

I think a good mechanic specializing in porsche engines is key. There are several oil leak fixes that these guys have delt with and know (drilling the cam shaft oil return holes...etc). I think you should change mechanics.

[pkabush]

Maybe it's just me but, if you take your car in for a re-seal and it still leaks the mechanic should do what has to be done to get it right. No charge. I'm a General Contractor. If someone hires me to replace a leaking window and it still leaks after fitting a new one I'd be embarrassed as hell and it would be fixed ASAP on my dime.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

The A/C will never work and oil leaks will never stop.

The very nature of an air cooled, opposed cylinder, split case engine means that it will likely leak . . . those that post that their 911s don't leak a drop are either remarkably lucky, don't park their cars with oil in them, or don't know what oil looks like.

In stock form, the Turbo a/c is good for low-to-mid 80s ambient - perfect for not-hot climates. When properly modified, however, the systems can be built to hang meat in the cabin even in upper 90s/low 100s and high humidity . . . not cheap, and not easy, but worth every penny and ounce of effort if you live in a hot climate and want to actually drive the car and not end up at point B soaked in funk.

[Mick_D]

Ronnie, we all know you're soaked in funk 24/7 regardless of the ambient temperatures.

[jwasbury]

I DIY rebuilt my 1979 930, mostly followed Wayne's rebuild book. The engine leaked immediately from the lower valve covers. The covers had been put on a belt sander to true up the mating surfaces by the machine shop, but it didn't help. I ultimately bought Hargett valve covers which worked better. The engine didn't leave any marks on the garage floor for several years and 10,000 miles or more, but eventually started leaking from somewhere in the triangle of death area.

These engines have a reputation for being leakers for a reason...they are!

[Black_Hat]

Do you really think a German would tolerate a car that drips oil on the street, makes a mess so people can step in it and track it in the house ?

You Obviously have never been to Germany.

I was Born in Bavaria.

My 1991 C2 turbo does not leak period, it may seep a little but never drip on the ground.

Fix your leaks or get a new mechanic

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

I'm convinced that Porsche purposely designed the engines to leak -

* cam carriers - metal to metal surfaces sealed from oil leaks with only goo (guaranteed to leak with time and will leak immediately if the goo is not applied to perfection or the wrong goo is used).

* dozens of case through bolts requiring the use of dozens of o-rings to prevent leaks (and the washers and case surfaces for said o-rings are often not camfered properly by the factory to ensure good sealing) - guaranteed to leak over time and often immediately.

* decades of poor head stud material choices = inconsistent sealing and/or breakage = leaks - both combustion and oil varieties.

* dozens of various oil fitting and pipe/hose combinations that leak sooner or later (sometimes when new).

* cam chain housings and covers that require both a paper gasket AND goo in order not to leak right away.

And the list goes on and on (same with similar style, aircraft engines).

[pkabush]

Tell us how you really feel Rawknees.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I paid for a re- seal when my motor was out for a new clutch. That was about 12 years ago. It stayed dry for 3-4 years of hars driving before developing several leaks. I agree that it is the nature of these beasts to leak oil but if you pay for a re-seal it should be dry for awhile anyway. Don't even get me started on that POS parasitic drag of a boat anchor they tried to pass off as a/c

[Rawknees'Turbo]

70'sbush, despite all my Porsche engine shortcomings hateraid, I do luvs me some aircooled, gas guzzling, oil spewing, anti-green goodness!

Agreed - the stock a/c is point-n-laugh worthy, BUTT can be stroked to perfection with the right, FUNKY, hands for the job!!!!!!!!

[flightlead404]

Cellison, Skimp, I'm in Duluth. Maybe we should make an all 930 run somewhere sometime.

My experience with oil cooled engines, including 2 911's and 1 930, and 5 aircraft engines that I have done all the maintenance on them is threefold.

1) While you may get them to be bone dry for a short time, you are very unlikely to get them to be bone dry for long periods. There are those that have, and they are lucky and unusual, and usually its the luck of the draw.

2) There is a difference between a seep and a leak. I can live with seeps, dampness, a drip or a few every time I drive as long as it's not onto the exhaust.

3) You will drive yourself mad and bankrupt trying to chase every single drip and seep on a 30 year old oil cooled car, that expands so much when its hot, and has 13-16 qts of oil flowing around.

I replaced my valve cover gaskets, breather cover gasket, breather hose (modded something for a better seal), oil pressure switches, turbo oil line fitting at the cover, engine oil cooler ($1k) and gaskets, oil tank gaskets and some oil lines this past summer. Had a bone dry engine about 6 months. Now I've got a seep on the turbo oil line where its swaged together. You know what, I can live with it, it doesn't smoke, and I know I'm digging in there for other stuff sometime soon. I don't sweat it.

YMMV

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

The A/C will never work and oil leaks will never stop. .

i have three AC cars and they do not, and never have, leaked. the aircon also works ok on the 964.
anyone with persistent leaks i suggest finding a new workshop lol.

[TurboKraft]

Try this guy:

AUTO EUROPE
1923 PIEDMONT CIR
NE ATLANTA, GA 30324
Tel. 404.875.0552

Martin is a grouchy old Cuban, but an air-cooled specialist, been doing these at least 35 years.

[jwasbury]

To those who say their air cooleds don't or have never leaked a drop, please check that you have oil