x-faktory EFI: Recent installs/dyno runs

[al lkosmal]

I spend a lot of my time working with people ....answering EFI install questions....debugging, tuning etc......I enjoy analyzing the data, helping to solve the problems, improving the tune.....it can be frustrating & confusing sometimes, but i do my best to hang in there until things work........and

It's great when things turn out right.... here are two recent examples.

My customer and friend Max, in Germany, installed an x-faktory EFI kit on his newly built 3.2SS (RHD EFI/ITBs, dual plug crankfire with COPs, hot cams, Bosch ignitors and pencil coils, etc)
He was nice enough to report back on his install/tune in his stellar 67S.....as follows:

“Hey Al,
We have just been on the dyno this weekend (see pictures). Amazing result: 278 HP at 87,8°F (31°C) air intake temperature and we didn't take the engine over 7300/min with 200/min hysteresis. I am very satisfied. At cooler air temp and a slight increase in rev limiter, we should easily get 300-320 HP. Thanks for all!!!.......The car is a weapon now. 900kg weight only”







And here's another recent install/dyno from Dan....Dan really impressed me with his approach...while waiting for his kit to be built and shipped, he researched how to install and tune EFI...asking lots of great questions prior to and during the install/tuning and even purchasing the Performance Fuel Injection Systems book written by Matt Kramer and Jerry Hoffman to round out his EFI education.
Dan has a 75 Carrera, now with an x-faktory EFI kit installed (RHD ITBs with M'squirt MS2 controlling fuel and spark) . i don't have pix of his 911, but he did provide me with a before/after dyno run (His engine was already pretty healthy for a stock 2.7S w/ssIs/Sport muffler).... here is Dan's feedback).......

"Hi Al,

Hope you are well .......

Attached are the before and after dyno pulls for my 75 Carrera 2.7, before is Bosch CIS and after is x-faktory ITB-EFI.

If you overlay the 2 plots (y axis is same in both, x axis very close), you can see the ITB-EFI improved low end and high end torque (and hp: hp = (torque x rpm) / 5252) while mid range was the same. So my driving sensation is the car now pulls harder out of the hole and then wants to keep revving as the rpm's build - no doubt the velocity stacks are helping at the top end.

Anyway, this has been a fun, learning filled project. Thank you for making this possible through x-faktory!

Regards,
Dan ...."






regards,
al

[Dpmulvan]

I would watch more of your YouTube videos but they’re so damn long I can’t find the time.

[thetorch]

I was under the impression that 300+ horsepower (or even 278) at the wheels for a 3.2 would be ... pretty extraordinary. Maybe I'm mistaken and happy to be corrected if need be.

https://www.911chips.com/dyno.html

[al lkosmal]

My grasp of the German language is not good, but using an online German to English translator....the dyno numbers appear to represent HP/TQ at the engine (not the wheels) ......and although i did not build this 3.2SS......I have built a few and they are a bit different than the stock 3.2 site even with the best chips available ....both very good...but decidedly different.....not sure if Max's 3.2SS will get to 300HP...but 278 at the motor is good stuff.....the main point being a nice EFI install and successful tuning session. It's great when people are excited about their projects and take the time to get back to me with their results..

regards,
al

[thetorch]

Al, makes sense. Was trying to learn, not criticize anyone. One of my best driving buddies has one of your 3.2 builds and we hit the roads weekly -- and his car flies.

[al lkosmal]

torch,
No worries, just trying to put the info into context....and thank you for mentioning your friends 3.2.....that is very good news.

regards,
al

[zaphodtheprez]

I need to send you an update on my car Al, once I get it dyno tuned.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CwjFLqRpz86/?img_index=1

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by zaphodtheprez

I need to send you an update on my car Al, once I get it dyno tuned.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CwjFLqRpz86/?img_index=1

I look forward to it...

regards,
al

[Tom_in_NH]

MAHA chassis dynamometer power calculations already included estimated driveline lower loss. The parameter data point listed as Schleppleistung on the dyno report IS THE DRIVELINE POWER LOSS VALUE. The MAHA chassis dynamometer measures this during the deceleration phase of the run. You can see it plotted at the bottom of the graph as the gradually rising line.
Do not add an addition DRIVELINE loss guess to the results.

[al lkosmal]

Tom,
Thank you for the clarification.......so 278 at the wheels.....much appreciated.

regards,
al

[Tom_in_NH]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

Tom,
Thank you for the clarification.......so 278 at the wheels.....much appreciated.

regards,
al

Actually no. The power reported by the MAHA chassis dynamometer is an estimated flywheel power, as it attempts to measure driveline frictional losses during coastdown.

So, 278 estimated at the flywheel according to MAHA, which is still an amazing number for this motor.

[al lkosmal]

Tom,
Thanks again..this time for clarifying the earlier clarification...which i misunderstood completely......278 at the flywheel is a great result. Glad we have that cleared up.....excellent results.

regards,
al

[OSC911]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

Tom,
Thanks again..this time for clarifying the earlier clarification...which i misunderstood completely......278 at the flywheel is a great result. Glad we have that cleared up.....excellent results.

regards,
al

Still not too shabby though. I would be pretty happy at flywheel 278hp.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by OSC911

Still not too shabby though. I would be pretty happy at flywheel 278hp.

i've built a couple of these.... hit me up...

[thetorch]

So about 176 KW or 236 hp as measured at the wheels if I read that correctly.

[Tom_in_NH]

I dont know where you're getting that 236 hp. The MAHA measured 200.1 hp at the wheels. It then adds 55.2 hp for the estimated drivline frictional losses, totaling 255.3 hp. Then, the MAHA adds the atmospheric correction factor, bring the total up to 278 hp.
Honestly, I find a driveline loss of 55 hp to be ludicrous. Thats more than 25% !!!!!! I'm not saying that 275 flywheel hp is out of the realm of reason for a hot 3.2ss, I'm just completely stunned by the the losses that the MAHA dynamometer came up with. Doesn't pass the smell test for me.

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by OSC911

Still not too shabby though. I would be pretty happy at flywheel 278hp.

exactly....

[thetorch]

Originally Posted by Tom_in_NH

I dont know where you're getting that 236 hp. The MAHA measured 200.1 hp at the wheels. It then adds 55.2 hp for the estimated drivline frictional losses, totaling 255.3 hp. Then, the MAHA adds the atmospheric correction factor, bring the total up to 278 hp.
Honestly, I find a driveline loss of 55 hp to be ludicrous. Thats more than 25% !!!!!! I'm not saying that 275 flywheel hp is out of the realm of reason for a hot 3.2ss, I'm just completely stunned by the the losses that the MAHA dynamometer came up with. Doesn't pass the smell test for me.

I misread the last mustang dyno chart line as 176 KW (estimating the line) at the wheels. The pic isn't great. Looks like it says 192 max HP wheels.

[Tom_in_NH]

Ok, I had been referring to the MAHA run in the first photo

[zaphodtheprez]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

I look forward to it...

regards,
al

Here's the setup.
'82 911SC with the original 3L and 915.

I started with Al's basic fuel only RHD ITB kit.
Then, because I can't leave a good thing alone, I added/replaced:
1. EMU Black ecu for the MS2
2. Bosch COPS
3. Adapt Motorsport CAM/Crank sensor module for the dizzy
4. Rothsport crank trigger wheel.
5. I also changed up some smaller items like the vacuum plenum and IAC

That all blew the budget up, but I was going to do the conversion myself anyway and my sights were on a fixed target now:
1. A setup which I can easily manage, maintain, tune and upgrade later
2. Get rid of CIS and CDI with full control sequential spark and injection
3. Improve performance, response and efficiency

I did limit performance expectations considering I do not plan to rebuild this engine for another 30-50K mikes. That'll be fun when the time comes. I hear higher displacement, higher compression, twin-spark, ported heads and a custom cam should all be considered whenever I get there.

I had already put on SSIs and a Monty stainless 2in1out exhaust to take care of the exhaust side.

I logged a couple thousand miles with Mango this summer, road tuning and logging. It was running well from a seat of the pants perspective and from what I could see in the logs. I finally found a local shop with dyno that was recommended from a member of our local Air Cooled Luftheads group. It turned out the owner is also a member of the same group, I just didn't know.

We set up to do a few conservative runs/pulls with a 6200 rev limiter.
On the first pull it was clear there we needed to add fuel at high load/high rpm.
We also needed to tune the decel fuel correction to get rid of some pops and bangs and the injector parameters which I had managed to mess up.

Over 4 runs we fixed these issues. The graph represents 1st run and the 4th run which was after the fuel tuning.
After one dyno session, this setup is 23% up on whp and wtq from the original factory numbers.

187whp 5860rpm
182wtq 4540rpm

I'm really happy with the result. The tuner said he's impressed with the result and I would be near impossible to get more without new cams, heads, pistons and cylinders.

I wanted to see a flat torque curve with a good amount down low and almost got it except for that dip between 3-4k rpm. So fixing that is the work left to do. After that, this project is done. While there is a lot more potential in this motor with cams, heads, and p&c s , I don’t need to go there…yet. This motor now is well suited to this chassis and this driving season has been the best so far.
There are two other winter projects planned for Mango - that’s more than enough.