BMW Boxer Buying - Advice Please

[Superman]

I have long admired these bikes but never had one and never even rode one until this week when I rode an R1150r briefly. I want one.

I have a 1978 Honda CB750K that was actually gifted to me by pelicanhead Aaron (BlueSkyJaunte) years ago. I had one a few thousand years ago and imagined that having another one would make me feel 22 again. That didn't work, but it is a fun bike and now I want something more reliable and low-maintenance, and one that makes torque below 6K rpm. I definitely liked riding the 1150.

Advise me. I can afford whatever I want but I am looking at the 1150 series. Lots of MC police guys fell in love with them. They are simple and reliable. Well-understood. I can probably find a decent one with low miles for under $4K.

Later bikes, particularly ones newer than about 2015, make substantially more power and have advanced features, but would cost 3+ times as much. I just wonder whether the additional power and features are worth it. Again, the 1150s make good power and are simpler. More gadgets can be seen as just more complexity, more cost.

Advise me please.

I think I want a non-ABS or, more specifically, a non-servo bike. Apparently, those mechanisms have reliability problems and are spendy to address if they fail. Also, the 1150 I rode lacked these features and had great brakes. Servo brakes take some time to get used to. Non-servo brakes allow the rider to feel more connected. These features were an option for the 1150 series. Some were delivered without it. Did BMW cease offering this decision? Did BMW just start putting servos on all bikes whether the buyer wanted it or not? If so, then when?

Tell me what I should know about this.

These bikes are considered fairly bullet-proof, but I have just learned of the transmission input spline problem. Some feel this is likely a problem of mis-alignment and, if so, replacing a failed input shaft would not be a permanent fix. It would also be expensive. Tell me how I can avoid this. More specifically, I wonder if this problem is applicable to only certain model years. I know that some 1100s and early 1150s have had this problem, but I wonder if it got addressed by BMW for later years and, if so, when.

Okay here comes the more controversial question: Everybody seems to think the GS is the greatest model. I don't get it. Why would I pay double just to get a 19" front wheel? The GS seems to be a dirt bike for touring. A touring dirt bike? Really? A tall dirt bike with a hundred HP and luggage? I know I am exaggerating. Caricaturizing. But I really don't get it. My BMW will rarely if ever see a gravel or dirt road. It will have street tires. I do not wish to be riding on streets and highways with knobby tires. Also, I am not tall and GS bikes are lifted compared to the Rxxxxr. I think I am targeting something like a R1150r with windscreen, bags and top bag. A simple bike without all that RT nonsense, but with touring capability.

Tell me what I should know. Everything. Tell me answers to questions I don't even know enough to ask.

I also wonder why modern cars and bikes are so heavy. Technology exists to make them strong and light. Hm. And why do gas tanks come up to our chest now? Hm. These are just examples of me whining outside the topic of buying advice. Forgive me.

[njsax]

You're overthinking this. Is this a science project? Buy the bike that begs you to ride.

Any R1150xx is going to be 22 years old or older. They're gonna have problems, like the Clutch Slave Cylinder puking all over your Clutch and contaminating it ($$$, and not simple). Early versions of those 1150 bikes have ABS (ABS-II). Servos came on to the scene around 2002 (I-ABS). Don't want servo? Buy model year 2001 or older. Consider R1100xx. The factory Shocks are only good for about 30k miles. After that, they are toast. You'll need to replace them ($$$).
Brake maintenance is key to problem-free operation, including ABS-II and I-ABS. If the seller cannot document regular and proper brake maintenance, walk away. Stay away from bikes that have had a K&N air filter for the past 30k miles. That engine won't last much longer. Stay away from bikes that have had a lot of aftermarket electrical add-ons. Often, the electrical connections are poor and prone to failure. These vintage BMWs had Euro-compliant, bio-degradable wire harness sheathing. After 10 years, the wire harnesses start falling apart. After 20 years, the wires are no longer protected and you'll have to take apart the bike to re-wrap all the wires.
Heated hand grips are nice to have. Make sure they work on the bike you're considering ($$$). If the fuel vapor charcoal cannister was removed (common modification), ensure the vacuum lines are intact and not leaking.

1150 series - 6 speed trans
1100 series - 5 speed trans
both are OK

If you're looking for a "standard" motorcycle, which is what the R1150R is, then you might want to consider one of the new retro Hondas or Kawasakis. Reliable, better handling, and more power than your old '78 Honda. An old BMW is really not for the casual rider. But if you're the kind who would rather wrench than ride, go for it.

[Superman]

Yes, I overthink things. But I'd say most folks buy vehicles with their hearts and not their heads. They stumble onto a car lot not knowing what they want and they fall in love. Every car salesman knows this. A better approach is to do the homework and make the decision first, then go find the vehicle.

So....are BMW motorcycles really so troublesome? I am getting rid of an old Honda and hoping for something less maintenance-intensive.

[HeartofDavid]

I don't think any 20 year old motorcycle is going to have few maintenance issues. I had a 2004 R1100S a few years ago. Sold it.. Bought a Ducati Supersport S. Love it but have always missed the R1100S. So I found a nice Boxer replica about a month ago. I have already had the Slave Cylinder replaced.

Today I actually just balanced the throttle bodies which were pretty much perfect other than a tweak to one of the screws for idle.

I also bought the AF-Xied and put that on this morning. I had that on my last bike and it made a huge difference and I took the new bike for a ride tonight and I have to say it was the most glorious ride I've had in years.

When these bikes are tweaked a bit and taken care of, they are a dream. Best bike I have ever owned.. but I will be honest. You may have to put some work and money into it now and then. But for me it's absolutely worth it. :-)

[Superman]

Thank you Sir. This is very helpful.

[sgoodwin]

Remember you're on a forum where every little problem is amplified a hundred times by the nay sayers. My '99 has been dead reliable for all this time with only a few small problems & no major failures. It is one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned & travelled on. I'm amazed how much I enjoy riding it every time I get on it. I did replace the nut cruncher seat & upgrade to Ohlins suspenders which was a huge improvement.

[ckcarr]

To further add to sgoodwin's reply.

This is predominantly a BMW R1100S and R1200S motorcycle forum, not really a generic boxer engine or BMW brand/model forum. It is a forum for a niche of (kind of) unusual BMW motorcycles models.

It also was / and is a "tech forum" although there are general discussions these days on travel, rides and group meets also. So, yes it will amplify repairs because that was the intent of the forum.

BMW's also had a reputation of being "bulletproof" and "reliable" motorcycles. That's how a lot of people look at the bikes before owning one. Ha-Ha! Anyone here knows that isn't the case in reality. Stuff happens, just like any other brand. And sometimes, often, repairs are going to cost a small fortune, and you need to be able to get the parts. Genuine BMW parts are starting to disappear off the dealer parts fiche's. Fortunately, there are some aftermarket replacements out there at Beemer Boneyard, or Euro Motoelectrics....

[Superman]

Much appreciated! I still want one, and I think I am targeting an '03 or '04 1150r without ABS. Reasons. Yeah, I know this is a tech forum and I know it focuses on S models but I didn't see a forum option in which 1150r questions would be on topic.

Many thanks for all input.

[908/930]

You mentioned more reliable and lower maintenance than a Honda? Take a look at the R1200r I think 2007 was the first year, likely not much price difference but less likely to have clutch spline problem, at least from alignment issue.

[Marke123]

It's an interesting thread but the K&N filter comment "stay away from a bike with K&N airfilter as it won't last".

What's behind this claim?

I had a K&N on my R1100S and when I inpsected the airbox, it was pefectly clean. I was satisfied it was working.

Just asking.

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by Superman

Much appreciated! I still want one, and I think I am targeting an '03 or '04 1150r without ABS. Reasons. Yeah, I know this is a tech forum and I know it focuses on S models but I didn't see a forum option in which 1150r questions would be on topic.

Many thanks for all input.

The big and expensive problem with a bike from that era is the spline failure issue. It's a lot more common than the fanbois like to admit. It normally happens around 30K miles, so if you find a bike with 60K miles it's probably OK. You can check to see if the clutch disk is rotating on the splines by pulling the starter and looking in that hole. There are videos showing how to do it on YouTube. I wouldn't buy one without looking, but it's a little invasive so I'd be a little surprised if an owner would let you do it.

I don't think you'll find an R1150R with no ABS. I've never heard of one. You can probably find an R1100S without it, or at least without the servo ABS. You can find an R1150GS from 2000-2002 with non-servo ABS.

You can ask about the R1150R in the oilhead section of bmwsporttouring.com on in the road bikes section of advrider.com, or here. People will be happy to answer.

[njsax]

Originally Posted by Marke123

It's an interesting thread but the K&N filter comment "stay away from a bike with K&N airfilter as it won't last".

What's behind this claim? ...

It's been fairly well documented in various forums, including this one. Do a search. Let's not hijack this thread by rehashing the established arguments.

[Swamper]

WE have 3 R1150R and 3 R1100S BMW's. All are great to ride and set-up just a little different. Haven't had any major failures on any of them but we do our own maintenance and probably being enthusiast over maintain them. The servo brakes aren't as big as problem as you may think. You need to understand the system and service it properly. Our dealer has never seen a failure with this system however has had many of them were the owner has tried to work on them and screwed them up, he has always been able to get them straightened out. We change the fluid every other year on all our bikes. As for the clutch problems we haven't had any however on one of our S's we have replaced the clutch because we had a rear bearing going out on the drive and had the cases apart. Never had any problems with the hydraulics but have replaced the rubber lines with the braided SS type. Wiring usually has to be re-wrapped but that's just a one time day job. These bikes get great mileage and touring on the R model works rather well, I prefer using one for touring than any of our other bikes.

[mgp steve]

“Tell me what I should know. Everything. Tell me answers to questions I don’t even know enough to ask”…

Here goes…

An early 21st century BMW; an “ought” is your desired motorcycle. I’ve had a bunch of them and put a lot of miles on them. I do my own maintenance. My local shop loans me special tools. How great is that? I’ve written many inspection check lists for friends. The S and BCR are my specialty but any 259-motored BMW of this era is pretty similar. I’ve done buyer’s checks on R, RT, CL, S and BCR bikes.

Four of my last five bikes were ‘04 1100S’ and BCRs. I’ve owned and ridden 20-motorcycles in the past 55-years. 12 were BMWs. I didn’t start keeping miles-ridden per year until 1990. From 1990 to 2016 I averaged 13,000 miles per year. Most of this was daily commuting 30-miles round trip mostly on interstate. A few long distance trips of a couple thousand miles and a few track days were also done. I rode in all weather, year round in the Cincinnati area.

I tell you all this so you can consider the source. Almost all of these forum-answers are anecdotal-seldom are they data-driven even though real units of measurement are frequently used-this is stuff that happened to we forum members. Some of it is very deep but usually very narrow, experience-wise.

Miles ridden per year will be a very big factor in the yearly maintenance costs you will incur. Riding under 5000 miles per year should keep maintenance costs relatively low. If you aren’t going to do your own work, buy a Japanese UJM as you can’t open a car door without hitting a UJM-dealership. BMW dealerships are few in this country.

Once a bike is bought and brought up to rideable condition*, a battery tender is a must if a BMW of the years you prefer is not ridden everyday. During this era more electrical-load was added but the amp hour of stock batteries was reduced. My guess is that a weight and cost savings was sought by BMW. The good news is alternator output went up and with microprocessor, electronic fuel injection, starting became easier. That said always replace this era’s battery with the same or more amp hours than recommend. 19 amp hours was standard in the oughts.

20-year old BMWs with under 10,000 miles on them are common in the US where most motorcycles are used as “toys”: seasonal, short-distance use. Do expect to have to replace tires and battery. Mid-2023 cost for these two items is around $800 (if you install the battery and remove and replace the wheels yourself).

John F. states suspensions are worn out at 30K-miles. I think it’s more like 10K-miles but if you don’t intend to thrash your new old bike at the track or overload it by a factor of two, the original suspensions should suffice long enough to determine if you want to keep it.

If you choose an S there may be some very low mile OEM shocks out there as many an S-owner upgraded suspensions from the get go.

I’ve heard horror stories about drivetrains and ABS. I’ve had a K100RS, K1, R1100RS, R1100RT, four 1100S’(two of those BCRs) and a K1200GT. With the exception of the K100, these nine bikes had Paralever drivetrains. Seven had Telelever front forks. Seven had ABS and five had linked, servo assisted power brakes. Total miles ridden by me (I’ve never had a new BMW) was/is 330,000 miles. Total mileage for these nine was/is 365,000 miles.

During this time one u-joint and one driveshaft failed. Pivot bearings (which are said to last only 15,000) miles were replaced on only two of these nine Paralever models. One set was worn past adjustment and one was replaced (prudently) on the bike that failed the u-joint. All the clutches (93,000 miles the highest, on the K1) all lasted and were within tolerance when I sold the bikes.

No ABS failures. Bleeding the brakes on the 1100S/BCR with ABS, linked, power brakes is expensive if you pay to have it done-there are nine brake bleeders. If when bleeding any of the nine, air gets in, start again. The double secret bleeding procedure is out there. I have it if you need it. It takes a long time compared to conventional brakes. Swampe, I think it was, noted owners screwed up brake maintenance and had to have a dealer straighten it out. I’m not surprised.

In those 365,000 miles I’ve never had a spline issue. I’ve inspected only four by disassembly. All were good.

I have avoided newer Can Bus equipped models as I add high visibility tail and brake lights and turn signals and Motolights to my bikes. Can Bus bikes can be electrically-accessorized but it is more expensive and time consuming.

Further, I wire for heated visor, gloves, jacket, pants and socks and radar detector. The 780 watt alternator can handle a very large parasitic draw.

Hard bags and boxes are almost universally available on these model-years. They make good crash bars. I high sided the K1 and low sided the 1100S’. K1 plastic was expensive but the frame, tank and drive train were undamaged. The S’ main fairing-tube frame was straighten-able, no plastic damage. Saddle bag, top box and valve cover protectors were abraded. One mirror broken. S ended up upside down in a ditch, K1 in the middle of the track.

The oil head engine is very torquey, the gear selection is not critical in critical situations; it will pull very well at low rpm. The K-engines are similarly torquey but the K-bikes are heavy and very hot above 70° F ambient.

This era BMWs had five- and six-speed transmissions. I like the six-gear transmission for high speed fuel economy but that said this era mpg at speed is not great: 42 mpg at 85 mph is about as good as can be expected.


Note that Swampe, like me seems to have ridden several of this era BMW many miles with very few issues.

Be patient and willing to travel (or ship) far and you can find a very passable ready to ride 20-year old BMW.


I’m sure I’ve forgotten some minor issues. If you find something you like let me know and I will give you a check list (if I’m familiar with the type).


*rideable condition is the long pole in the tent. A low mileage bike sitting for a long duration is common. Dealers, if they will take a 20-year old bike in trade, are faced with usually having to replace the entire brake line-system and sometimes control units and hydraulic actuators of ABS-models for liability reasons. But my experience with older, low mileage BMWs has been very good. My K1 was eight years old with 917 miles on it. My lowest mileage BCR was 12-years old with 2500 miles on it and my K1200GT was 15-years old with 3000 miles on it. None of these had brake issues for the entire time I owned them.

The K1 required fuel injection cleaner to bring its fuel map into the the proper window; it was running too lean as the fuel injectors were a bit restricted by deteriorated fuel.

I expected hydraulic leaks on all these bikes. Only one fork seal needed replacing.

[ckcarr]

From what I saw on the misc board the OP has bought an R1200GSA.