2003 R1100S BCR - Slipping under acceleration

[HeartofDavid]

Hello Everyone,

I am the new owner of a 2003 R1100S BCR. I used to have a 2004 R1100s but sold it and always regretted it.

Anyway, found one in Ontario and rode it home.

I rode the 1500kms home in the rain with NO issues at all with the bike. It was amazing. I get into my home town and at one point come hard on the throttle a bit in 1st gear and it it was slipping. The revs were going higher but it wasn't engaging.

It was like a transmission slip or something. I took it for another ride last Sunday and didn't come on to it that hard but at one point had to pass a vehicle and when I came on to the throttle a little harder it slipped again in 5th gear.

I am not sure what may be causing this. The bike only has 26,000kms on it. I see no signs on any leaks around the boots of the drive. I also see no signs of leaks around the clutch slave cylinder.

One thing I do notice too lately is that when I go over bumps it feels like a bad shock or something is loose under the bike. I checked anything that could be loose without putting it on the stand. (that is in a box that is coming in a week).

Clutch seems to work fine and there is sufficient pressure from what I feel.

Anyone have any ideas of what to check for? I did order a new slave cylinder anyway as it seems it would be good to replace that.

Thanks for any help. :-)

[908/930]

I would think clutch or driveshaft. Press hard on the rear brake to lock the rear wheel and slowly release the clutch and listen. If only slipping in higher gears likely the clutch. The driveshafts use rubber to couple the inner and outer tube and absorb torsional pulses, they do eventually fail and spin freely.

[HeartofDavid]

Originally Posted by 908/930

I would think clutch or driveshaft. Press hard on the rear brake to lock the rear wheel and slowly release the clutch and listen. Those driveshafts use rubber to couple the inner and outer tube and absorb torsional pulses, they do eventually fail and spin freely.

Ok, but on a bike with 26,000 kms? I won't harm it any by doing that?

[908/930]

Hate to say it but clutch splines can fail at about that milage. Will you harm anything by locking the rear brake, I don't think so. Try it in higher gear and see if the clutch or splines slip.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by HeartofDavid

Hello Everyone,

I am the new owner of a 2003 R1100S BCR. I used to have a 2004 R1100s but sold it and always regretted it.

Anyway, found one in Ontario and rode it home.

I rode the 1500kms home in the rain with NO issues at all with the bike. It was amazing. I get into my home town and at one point come hard on the throttle a bit in 1st gear and it it was slipping. The revs were going higher but it wasn't engaging.

It was like a transmission slip or something. I took it for another ride last Sunday and didn't come on to it that hard but at one point had to pass a vehicle and when I came on to the throttle a little harder it slipped again in 5th gear.

I am not sure what may be causing this. The bike only has 26,000kms on it. I see no signs on any leaks around the boots of the drive. I also see no signs of leaks around the clutch slave cylinder.

One thing I do notice too lately is that when I go over bumps it feels like a bad shock or something is loose under the bike. I checked anything that could be loose without putting it on the stand. (that is in a box that is coming in a week).

Clutch seems to work fine and there is sufficient pressure from what I feel.

Anyone have any ideas of what to check for? I did order a new slave cylinder anyway as it seems it would be good to replace that.

Thanks for any help. :-)

Agree with 908/930's comments and suggestions. My 2002 prep's clutch splines failed at 18,935 miles.

Possibles:

1.) Faulty clutch slave seal resulting in an internal (not outwardly visible) hydraulic leak which migrates through the hollow input shaft saturating the friction disc on the opposite side with slipping being inevitable. On a properly maintaned machine, a low clutch side reservoir fluid level is usually a telltale sign as well.

If, mechanically capable with a modicum of aptitude, simply remove the starter and look for evidence of moisture, not dry friction material dust.

2.) Driveshaft portion of concern is a two component affair with an elastic isolater membrane separating them. De-lamination causes a loss of power transfer. Usually, when these fail a distinct burning rubber-like odor due to friction is noticed accompanied by a coarse whirring noise.





3.) Transmission input shaft to clutch hub spline failure. When these fail it is pretty much instantaneous. One minute you're cruising, the next - not. This failure is characterized by a distinct raspy rattle while at rest with motor running, in gear and clutch engaged.



For 2 and 3 the rear of the bike must be raised enabling the wheel to spin. Engage any gear, preferably 3 or 4. Grasping the wheel at 12/6 or 9/3 O'clock position turn, and and take note of any slipping or freewheeling.

If you cannot spin the wheel the focus reverts back to a hydraulic fluid contaminated clutch disc.

A small diameter seepage, or pending clutch slave fault indicator hole can, (and should) be drilled into the side of the transmission slave location for simple monitoring at a glance.

You can use the search function to find any number of threads on this.

Good luck.

J.S.

[HeartofDavid]

Originally Posted by Jozef Schumann

Agree with 908/930's comments and suggestions. My 2002 prep's clutch splines failed at 18,935 miles.

Possibles:

1.) Faulty clutch slave seal resulting in an internal (not outwardly visible) hydraulic leak which migrates through the hollow input shaft saturating the friction disc on the opposite side with slipping being inevitable. On a properly maintaned machine, a low clutch side reservoir fluid level is usually a telltale sign as well.

If, mechanically capable with a modicum of aptitude, simply remove the starter and look for evidence of moisture, not dry friction material dust.

2.) Driveshaft portion of concern is a two component affair with an elastic isolater membrane separating them. De-lamination causes a loss of power transfer. Usually, when these fail a distinct burning rubber-like odor due to friction is noticed accompanied by a coarse whirring noise.





3.) Transmission input shaft to clutch hub spline failure. When these fail it is pretty much instantaneous. One minute you're cruising, the next - not. This failure is characterized by a distinct raspy rattle while at rest with motor running, in gear and clutch engaged.



For 2 and 3 the rear of the bike must be raised enabling the wheel to spin. Engage any gear, preferably 3 or 4. Grasping the wheel at 12/6 or 9/3 O'clock position turn, and and take note of any slipping or freewheeling.

If you cannot spin the wheel the focus reverts back to a hydraulic fluid contaminated clutch disc.

A small diameter seepage, or pending clutch slave fault indicator hole can, (and should) be drilled into the side of the transmission slave location for simple monitoring at a glance.

You can use the search function to find any number of threads on this.

Good luck.

J.S.

This was awesome. I'll check all this once my center stand gets here. Thanks for the help!

[ckcarr]

Jozef is a genius!
And carefully documents what he does for others.

[njsax]

Originally Posted by HeartofDavid

I did order a new slave cylinder anyway as it seems it would be good to replace that.

If the slave cylinder is gone, then so is your clutch. The hydraulic fluid squirts past the seal and into the bell housing, soaking the clutch. This is major disassembly involving clutch replacement, and of course the slave. Check the level in your clutch fluid reservoir. If it's low or gone, then that's your problem.

Don't buy an el-cheapo replacement slave. They don't last. Only buy the genuine BMW part, made by Magura. Well worth the extra money.

A BMW dealer will charge you about US$2500 to do the job if you can't, or are unwilling, to do it yourself.

[HeartofDavid]

Yeah, the Clutch Fluid Reservoir seemed to be fine. I didn't see any change in the 1500kms it took to ride it home.

I ordered one from Beemer Boneyard. We'll see what happens once I can get it on a stand and check the things Jozef mentioned. :-)

[njsax]

Originally Posted by HeartofDavid

...
I ordered one from Beemer Boneyard ...

Uh oh. That's one of the el-cheapos to stay away from. I wouldn't put that on my bike, and I don't recommend you put it on yours.

[908/930]

So what fails on the Beemer Boneyard slave cylinder, is it the bearing or leak? I installed one on my bike a couple years ago.

[sgoodwin]

Same question, they've been a reliable source for quality parts for a longtime. Where did you get info that they fail, as I've heard nor read such reports.

[njsax]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

Same question, they've been a reliable source for quality parts for a longtime. Where did you get info that they fail, as I've heard nor read such reports.

R1100S Forum on Facebook.

[njsax]

Originally Posted by 908/930

So what fails on the Beemer Boneyard slave cylinder, is it the bearing or leak? I installed one on my bike a couple years ago.

Both, or either. They don't last as long as the BMW/Magura. Considering the value of a clutch repair due to an actuator failure, the difference in cost is negligible. This is where it really pays to buy quality. As it is, those actuators are only good for 30-40 thousand miles. And then it's time to replace as a preventive measure. You don't wait for it to fail, because by the time you notice it, it's too late and the clutch is toast.

In my case, I just replaced mine, and my bike's only got 12K on it. But it's 22 years old. So, the old actuator had to go. Time is a factor as much as mileage with these parts.

[JimMoore]

It will slip more in higher gears with full power roll-ons. You may want to try a few of those to see what's happening.

In addition to Jozef's thoughts (I like #1. #2 and #3 bring you to an instantaneous stop) you have a rear main engine seal and an input shaft seal on the front of the transmission. There is also a seal at the back of the transmission where the clutch slave cylinder actuates the pushrod. Any of those could be leaking and foul your clutch.

Two other thoughts. If you have a bad slave, the clutch fluid will be discolored in the reservoir. It's easy to pop that cap off and see what's up. If it turns out you spun a driveshaft, I have a low mile (17,000) used one I'll sell you for $200 + shipping.

Maybe the rain just washed a bunch of dirt and grime onto the disk and caused some slippage. I'd definitely try riding it for awhile before I dug into the bike. That's a project!

[DCRider]

Agree join one (or more) of the FB 1100S pages and ask your question there, tag Colt Self and yes return that slave cylinder from BB and buy a real Magura from Tom Cutter at rubberchickenracing.com, he sells it as a kit so has all you need, I just bought one from him for my S. If the slave is not the problem you still should replace it as plenty of examples of low mileage S leaking (some without any exterior leak showing), it's a 20yr old bike so seals go bad just with time.

Originally Posted by njsax

R1100S Forum on Facebook.

[tomvv11]

The dissing of the aftermarket slave cylinders is a little suspect to me, and seems to come mostly from a vendor of the Magura units and some allies. Is there anyone out there with an aftermarket SC that has been installed a while? Properly maintained I would think the half priced item might just last. The ones that everyone is replacing are original Magura units.

[HeartofDavid]

Ok.. so i finally got the bike apart and took the slave cylinder off.

This is what it looks like and I assume that is not good..

[HeartofDavid]

I have the new one. But I am now a bit lost as to what to do now.

I realize that my clutch is probably toast though it’s not horrible. Just slips if I come on hard to it.

I have a guy who is a BMW mechanic who would replace my clutch but he is 2 hours away. I’d have to get the bike to him.

So.. do I clean up this the best I can.. put the new one in and take it to my mechanic? Or clean up the old one the best I can put it back in and then take it to him and let him do everything?

I’m not to worried about using the part for now.. I could always order the good one later and do that myself next summer.

[908/930]

At least you know what is slipping, Do not put the old one back in, there is a reasonable chance that the bearing is toast. I would think cleaning it up really well installing your new cyl and riding it two hrs should work, avoid using 6th and go easy on throttle. When trans is out drill small hole through case at bottom of slave cylinder.